maybe slightly off topic but, S's university had a new fraternity open? last year ( a black fraternity) and during the ceremony, which the university put on social media, the pledges were all in white face. I thought it was extremely odd in this day and age.
Oh goodness. Lots of little girls dressed as Pocahontas when the Disney movie came out. It was not offensive.
That's different from putting on a general Native American costume, like fringes, moccasins, feathers, etc. If they dress up as Pochahontas, Mulan, etc, they are dressing up for a character who happens to be Native American.
^ How about Joy Behar putting on blackface to dress up as a "beautiful African woman" (watch the video in the link below)? Is that ok? Also, notice the AA-looking woman on the panel with "appropriated" Nordic hair. Ain't diversity grand?
Cardinal FangRegistered UserPosts: 17,867Senior Member
So now the Virginia State Senate Majority Leader is outed as one of the editors of VMI's 1968 yearbook, which contained, in addition to multiple pictures of white students in blackface, at least one use of the N-word, and other uses of racial epithets. Yeah, it was a long time ago, but "n..." was a disgusting racial slur then too. This was the last yearbook before the first black students enrolled in VMI. They must have been gutsy guys to put up with that atmosphere of casual racism.
How about Joy Behar putting on blackface to dress up as a "beautiful African woman" (watch the video in the link below)? Is that ok?
No.
What part of black/brownface is never OK don't people understand?
Black/Brown people straightening, dyeing, etc their hair is another discussion entirely. When you live in a culture that pushes nordic beauty standards as the be-all, end-all, changing your looks to fit these standards (which society as a whole has reinforced for centuries in this country) is not appropriation.
Two completely different things that have precisely zero to do with each other. Don't move the goalposts.
But...I think the real issue is that minorities have traditionally had a harder time than white actors of European descent getting cast in minority roles, and characters of unspecified race were almost unthinkingly cast with white actors.
That may be the root of the gripes from non-white actors. Basically, they are already largely restricted to playing characters which are of a specific racial/ethnic appearance which they are or resemble, as opposed to also being able to play characters that could (theoretically) be of any racial/ethnic appearance. So it may be more annoying to them that they have to face additional competition for that limited set of characters, but not be able to compete for "generic" character roles.
But then if those making casting decisions assume that many viewers of the shows are racist and will prefer to see the "generic" characters be white, that will continue to go on.
I grew up in the deep south, and graduated from a southern state flagship university in 1978. Every white child in my white middle class, suburban bubble was taught the n word and blackface were unacceptable, rude and offensive. When fraternity boys at my university had blackface events, they knew it wasn't okay. It was deliberately subversive and provocative. They got away with it because "(white) boys will be boys". It wasn't a naive lapse of judgement. They understood this wasn't an acceptable norm. They also understood they would probably never be called to account.
I'm sure some of these young men grew up to be decent, maybe even admirable individuals, but all things being equal I'd rather have someone from my generation that didn't put on blackface representing me in state or national government. That was probably 99% of the white campus population.
The Klan outfit.... I can't remember anyone ever using a Klan robe as a joke. Not the wildest frats went there.
ETA.. The Klan was active in my state during the 70s and 80s. The membership wasn't huge. No one was joking about it.
mom2twogirlsRegistered UserPosts: 2,060Senior Member
This thread is supposed to be about blackface and it’s repercussions/fall out. It’s not about abortion or whitewashing (casting white actors in minority roles). Those discussions detract from this discussion.
As for Joy Behar, IMO the repercussions should be less than those of a politician and that of someone who was obviously and intentionally mockingly racist. I think it would be fantastic if she could say that at the time she dressed as a beautiful black woman, as well as when she discussed it on The View, she didn’t see it as a problem. She thought because she didn’t use it mockingly or in an exaggerated way, that it wouldn’t have been hurtful. That her intentions were racist. But with all of these discussions, she can see that it would have have hurtful to many people. That using ethnicity or race as a costume can easily be taken as making light of something others view as important to their identity. She should say she is sorry that she didn’t realize that before.
Again, that’s my personal opinion of how I think I would handle something like that. I’ve never really been a costume type person, so I am only imagining what my reaction would be based on how I would have thought of a costume like that in the past vs how I would think of it now.
mom2twogirlsRegistered UserPosts: 2,060Senior Member
NBC and ABC are not the same company.
Megyn Kelly’s show was awful, she was unlikeable even aside from this, she hadn’t been on NBC very long, she was losing them money. There was much more to it than her saying she doesn’t see the problem with blackface, which wasn’t by far her only racist statement.
Joy Behar hasn’t addressed this yet as far as I am aware.
^^^^they were portraying specific characters on their comedy shows. They probably dressed in wigs and other attire that is similar to other specific characters they were playing on SNL and late night TV.
Do people of color consider this the same as minstrel type blackface gags? I'd like to know.
Most people learn as children that it's not nice to make fun of people. These people ignored that. It pains me to see jokes made at the expense of anyone, black, white, fat, skinny, those who aren't intelligent, those not blessed with physical beauty.
I wish all of it would stop.
Replies to: Blackface
That's different from putting on a general Native American costume, like fringes, moccasins, feathers, etc. If they dress up as Pochahontas, Mulan, etc, they are dressing up for a character who happens to be Native American.
https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/428928-photo-resurfaces-of-joy-behar-in-blackface-for-beautiful
No.
What part of black/brownface is never OK don't people understand?
Black/Brown people straightening, dyeing, etc their hair is another discussion entirely. When you live in a culture that pushes nordic beauty standards as the be-all, end-all, changing your looks to fit these standards (which society as a whole has reinforced for centuries in this country) is not appropriation.
Two completely different things that have precisely zero to do with each other. Don't move the goalposts.
That may be the root of the gripes from non-white actors. Basically, they are already largely restricted to playing characters which are of a specific racial/ethnic appearance which they are or resemble, as opposed to also being able to play characters that could (theoretically) be of any racial/ethnic appearance. So it may be more annoying to them that they have to face additional competition for that limited set of characters, but not be able to compete for "generic" character roles.
But then if those making casting decisions assume that many viewers of the shows are racist and will prefer to see the "generic" characters be white, that will continue to go on.
"Gucci 'deeply apologizes' and removes from the shelves its $890 balaclava knit top after thousands on Twitter branded it 'blackface for millennials'"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6676289/890-balaclava-knit-Gucci-sparks-outrage-social-media-users-say-likened-blackface.html
I'm sure some of these young men grew up to be decent, maybe even admirable individuals, but all things being equal I'd rather have someone from my generation that didn't put on blackface representing me in state or national government. That was probably 99% of the white campus population.
The Klan outfit.... I can't remember anyone ever using a Klan robe as a joke. Not the wildest frats went there.
ETA.. The Klan was active in my state during the 70s and 80s. The membership wasn't huge. No one was joking about it.
As for Joy Behar, IMO the repercussions should be less than those of a politician and that of someone who was obviously and intentionally mockingly racist. I think it would be fantastic if she could say that at the time she dressed as a beautiful black woman, as well as when she discussed it on The View, she didn’t see it as a problem. She thought because she didn’t use it mockingly or in an exaggerated way, that it wouldn’t have been hurtful. That her intentions were racist. But with all of these discussions, she can see that it would have have hurtful to many people. That using ethnicity or race as a costume can easily be taken as making light of something others view as important to their identity. She should say she is sorry that she didn’t realize that before.
Again, that’s my personal opinion of how I think I would handle something like that. I’ve never really been a costume type person, so I am only imagining what my reaction would be based on how I would have thought of a costume like that in the past vs how I would think of it now.
Ok, we all know that NBC wanted to fire Kelly and they found an excuse, but shouldn't it now be ok to say out loud that it was just an excuse?
Megyn Kelly’s show was awful, she was unlikeable even aside from this, she hadn’t been on NBC very long, she was losing them money. There was much more to it than her saying she doesn’t see the problem with blackface, which wasn’t by far her only racist statement.
Joy Behar hasn’t addressed this yet as far as I am aware.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/02/06/why-jimmy-kimmel-and-jimmy-fallon-arent-talking-about-blackface/amp/
Do people of color consider this the same as minstrel type blackface gags? I'd like to know.
I wish all of it would stop.