Computer programming once had much better gender balance than it does today. What went wrong?
OHMomof2
13221 replies247 threads Senior Member
NYT Article this weekend. Interesting look at a time when lots of women were coding software, and how gradually they left and men took over. It walks through Eniac in the 1940s and the women who developed software for it, to Grace Hopper in the 50s, several others in the 60s, to 1984 when the tide began to turn.
It discusses how some colleges (CMU, HMudd) are dealing with that today, and challenges women in CS careers face, especially as they reach management.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/magazine/women-coding-computer-programming.html
277 replies It discusses how some colleges (CMU, HMudd) are dealing with that today, and challenges women in CS careers face, especially as they reach management.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/magazine/women-coding-computer-programming.html
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Replies to: Computer programming once had much better gender balance than it does today. What went wrong?
Computing is much more than software engineering these days. Perhaps women will become better represented in other disciplines of computing.
I've been approached by Google recruiters, but I know I'm not the type of person they're looking for. I know their interview process and I'm not interested in going through this. My degree is not in CS, and I don't know all the theoretical stuff they teach in CS classes. I have an understanding of basic principles, know what I need in my job, I can research and learn anything that I might need, and I have no desire to study algorithms specifically for an interview when I know I can find them online in five minutes as needed, or, better still, find a library function which does the job. The company I work for now had very different interview questions that tested general understanding and intelligence, relaxed interview atmosphere, no whiteboard coding. I've been working there for three years and love it. It may have something to do with this that the founders of the company are in there 60s, and the CTO is young but has a degree in a humanities field.
Is that so?
@roycroftmom makes a good point - is the time commitment less in other countries where this gap doesn't exist, or are the women different in those other countries?
Yes, early on they were hired for math skills and aptitude. I thin the culture is a big part of it now, or so the article says.
Nearly all CS folks need the 'socialization' skills, called "collaborative." Geting there is not limited to CS camps or competitions.
Yep.
I’m a programmer. I have a liberal arts degree. Got hired by a public agency that used an aptitude test in its hiring process (this was in the mid 90’s).
I’m good at logical thinking and pattern recognition. I tell people that debating in high school helped me gain programming skills—by that I mean it developed my ability to think logically.
I never really liked playing with computers and I still hate messing with hardware. I’ve had some bosses who seem to expect that everyone should be into everything that even vaguely involves computers and/or technology. And if you’re not a a geek who’s into video games and sci-fi you don’t fit in.
I code business and financial software. Wanting to take my computer apart for fun and play video games have no relationship to my job skills.
Once computers and coding became cool, the men took over and in many places created a culture that wasn’t welcoming.
Just one small example.
You can view the percentage female CS degrees at https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d18/tables/dt18_325.35.asp?current=yes . A brief summary is below. It looks like there were two key periods of rapid decline in female CS degree percentage -- 1985 to 1990 and 2002 to 2007.
In the first 1985 to 1990 decline, the number of students majoring in CS decreased for both genders, but the rate of decrease was more rapid for women than men -- dropping in half from 15k to 7k. I agree with the article that one important factor in the gender difference is the home computer, particularly the Commodore 64. It was the first affordable home computer for typical families and changed CS from a field you started in college to something HS kids often studied. During this period nearly all computer and video gaming marketing targeted males, and males were far more likely to be involved in HS computing activities including programming classes. This contributed to a male CS nerd type stereotype, as popularized in movies like Revenge of the Nerds, which was released in 1984.
The same pattern that happened in 1985 also happened from 2002-7. Again CS decreased for both genders, but the rate was more rapid from women than men -- dropping in half from 15k to 7k. I expect most of this decline was a delayed response to the dot com crash of 2000-02. During and shortly after the dot com crash fewer persons chose to major in CS. However, females seem to have suffered more than males. Perhaps it has something to do with females being more likely to emphasize CS career prospects than males or being more sensitive to perceived scarcity of jobs.
1971 -- 14% female
1975 -- 19% female
1980 -- 30% female
1985 -- 37% female (37.1% in 83-84 is peak)
1990 -- 30% female
1995 -- 29% female
2000 -- 28% female
2005 -- 22% female
2010 -- 18% female
2017 -- 19% female.
Wellesley has a big one open to everyone (I think), as does Smith, and Bryn Mawr hosts one called SisterHacks open to the 7 Sisters (yes, even the men at Vassar.) Lots of women coding on the floor.
Perhaps with more options available, programming doesn't seem as appealing. For example, engineering has improved since the early 1980s, when only 5.8% of engineers in the U.S. were women. It's still low, with only 14% of engineers being women, but much higher than it's been in the past.
That is a lot of engineers, that in the past may have felt limited to programming.
EU has much stricter labor laws and general culture is oriented much more towards work-life balance. However, the ratio of female programmers in larger in less developed countries like India and Iran, and within EU I believe it's Bulgaria, one of the poorest. This may be attributed to more opportunities for women to have a decent salary and be respected in fields other than STEM in rich European countries.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/
It doesn't mean women are less capable to go into STEM fields, or might enjoy them less. I have a friend in Paris who used to work for a French branch of a large well-known IT company, first as a programmer, then a manager. She liked her job but finally got tired of it, became an elementary school teacher and is enjoying it very much.