1NJParent1066 replies27 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 1,093Senior Member
As an OOS why would I pay the same for a public school that is beholden to a state's budget when I could be a full pay at a top private that has the best facility and wider course offerings? If we lived in CA, I may consider to send my kid to Berkeley because of discount, but it is not a value when you compare it to Cornell, NU or Duke.
I agree if you had to pay the same amount, a high quality private generally offers a better deal than an OOS public. However, there are many exceptions. For example, I would choose a Berkeley CS degree over the same degree at Northwestern or Duke any day.
wis7513891 replies62 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 13,953Senior Member
Finances is the biggest reason to choose a cheaper public U over a private one.
The elite tier of public flagships make it hard to look at the many lesser private schools so many on CC need to consider relative to their flagship. So, it depends on your state. Why spend more on a school with fewer available courses, no grad offerings et al. Honors programs can offer many of the so called advantages of private schools. The elite students, ie those with equivalent stats/ability, often end up at their flagship U.
I guess cons would include sharing a school with many more students and those merely good instead of better. One could list many pros and cons- depending on the individual public and private school being compared.
Just wondering if these families know something that I’m not thinking of, such as graduating on time, smaller classes, better alumni network, more internships oppos, etc
From what I know of the UCs, the first two might be concerns - it's worth looking at those closely. The 4 year grad rate of 75%-ish for the top 2 UCs. You can look at course catalogs for class sizes.
The last two on your list likely vary from school to school, and kid to kid. Is there a formal (electronic directory at least) alumni network at those UCs? A mentoring program? Are summer internships made available to students by the university itself, and/or is there a source for them in the career center's offerings?
When I've looked at the UC admissions by source school data for our high schools, it seems clear that only about 1/3 of the students who apply to Cal/UCLA get in. What surprises me even more is how few actually apply to Cal or UCLA. It's only about 25% of the class. Also, it used to be the UCSB and UCSD were pretty much guaranteed for high stats kids from our school, but that's no longer the case. I think the kids are choosing to ED to privates partly out of the realistic fear they won't get into a UC they desire, so they never even end up applying to UCs. And, yes, of course, the private school offers a different experience. I think since so many California kids go to massively huge high schools (4000 students is not uncommon, right?), so the smaller private colleges can be really appealing and different.
Lemonlee53 replies6 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 59Junior Member
edited April 7
We were in your exact position - I graduated from UCB and initially couldn’t imagine why we would want to pay more for a private college when we were fortunate enough to live in CA with access to the excellent public schools. But after our college tours, I could definitely see the appeal of a private school with smaller class sizes where you could expect to have more one-on-one interactions with your professors. My D felt the UCs were all too big for her (not to mention how crazy difficult it is for even a high-stat kid to get into the UCs nowadays, as previous posters have stated - even kids with 4.0+ gpas are being shut out of all except maybe Merced and Riverside). My daughter opted not to even apply to any of the UCs and is very happy at the small LAC she ended up at. She is at one of the Claremont colleges and although there are times I think of all the $ we could have saved, I feel as if she is getting a better experience than I had. It really does depend on the kid, and for some, the smaller school might be stifling, but she has really thrived in that environment which is why we opted for private.
TiggerDad1818 replies70 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 1,888Senior Member
edited April 7
As another product of the UC system (undergrad and grad schools), I learned to appreciate and respect the public university systems. Cal was my first love, and I will always be a Golden Bear. As an OOS now, I didn't even bother to have my sons apply to any of UC's given that it'd be full-pay for us. With my older son now attending our current state flag university and my second son a private, there's a huge difference in the quality of their undergrad education and experiences. I believe the reasons for people attracted to top 50 private colleges are pretty much related to the focus on undergraduate education:
1) teacher-to-student ratio for more intimate learning environment and easier access to faculty
2) endowment per student, i.e., more resources directed to undergrads
3) experiences, such as study abroad, internships, networks
4) career support services
5) in some cases, better FA offers (believe it or not, my private son cost less than my public son)
6) fear of being lost or isolated in the crowd at public institutions
7) some folks simply prefer everything "private" over "public" no matter
Lemonlee53 replies6 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 59Junior Member
One other consideration I neglected to mention: my D was undecided about her major and was very stressed about that. With the CA public schools, although you can apply undeclared, many of the majors are impacted so there is a very real risk that you may not be able to transfer into the major you want once you figure out what that is. At her private school, students don’t declare a major until the end of their sophomore year, so that was one less thing for her to have to worry about.
At her private school, students don’t declare a major until the end of their sophomore year, so that was one less thing for her to have to worry about.
Many private schools have restrictions on changing major or division. CMU is an example where changing into SCS is very difficult. Even Harvard has a restricted major, VES.
bluebayou26576 replies174 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 26,750Senior Member
This might be shocking to many on CC who revere private colleges but UC's are very hard to get into--almost all of them except maybe Riverside and Merced. Many many high stats kids get denied, certainly by UCB and UCLA but also by Davis and Santa Barbara, San Diego even Sant Cruz this last cycle.
That's correct. UC has made no secret about giving admission tips to first gen students. Maybe good public policy, but closes out much of the class to college educated parents. (Approx. 40% of the matriculating Frosh to UCLA and Cal and other UCs are first gen.)
We all have local stories about kids getting into an Ivy but rejected by Cal, or into Stanford and rejected by UCLA.
Then of course, there is ED -- as others have noted, finaid at the Ancient Eight is excellent. For those fortunate to be accepted, it can be cheaper to send a kid back east than to a UC at instate rates.
Approx. 40% of the matriculating Frosh to UCLA and Cal and other UCs are first gen.
UCB web sites say 23% of frosh are first generation to college. First generation to college students are more heavily represented among transfer students at 44%.
lostaccount5319 replies90 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 5,409Senior Member
Colleges and universities use different pedagogical models and often differ in terms of their values-with small LACs valuing the teaching model far more than universities; universities valuing the goal of contributing new knowledge much more than do LACs.
foobar1185 replies2 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 187Junior Member
Some elite privates are feeders to lucrative internships and job opportunities at employers that are concerned about prestige such as investment banks or consulting companies.
pog201642 replies2 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 44Junior Member
@bluebayou It will only be cheaper to send your child to "those" privates back east if you are eligible to receive Fin Aid. In CA coastal areas, at least, many middle class families are shut out of any financial aid so no matter how great their fabled aid is, it's a moot point. A lot middle and upper middle class families would prefer to send their kids to UC's--especially if they have multiple kids--but cannot because they will be denied, even though they are excellent students. Those who can afford $70,000 per year have that choice, but most do not.
There are many reasons to go private but smaller classes and intimate communities attract most. You get deeper interaction with your professors and peers. Even best state school (even with 10% auto-admit rate) overall accept 50% applicants which brings average IQ level down. State schools often have more focus on degrees for jobs while good private try to provide a broader education with strong focus on major .
Replies to: Pros and Cons of Public Flagship vs Private Colleges
The elite tier of public flagships make it hard to look at the many lesser private schools so many on CC need to consider relative to their flagship. So, it depends on your state. Why spend more on a school with fewer available courses, no grad offerings et al. Honors programs can offer many of the so called advantages of private schools. The elite students, ie those with equivalent stats/ability, often end up at their flagship U.
I guess cons would include sharing a school with many more students and those merely good instead of better. One could list many pros and cons- depending on the individual public and private school being compared.
From what I know of the UCs, the first two might be concerns - it's worth looking at those closely. The 4 year grad rate of 75%-ish for the top 2 UCs. You can look at course catalogs for class sizes.
The last two on your list likely vary from school to school, and kid to kid. Is there a formal (electronic directory at least) alumni network at those UCs? A mentoring program? Are summer internships made available to students by the university itself, and/or is there a source for them in the career center's offerings?
1) teacher-to-student ratio for more intimate learning environment and easier access to faculty
2) endowment per student, i.e., more resources directed to undergrads
3) experiences, such as study abroad, internships, networks
4) career support services
5) in some cases, better FA offers (believe it or not, my private son cost less than my public son)
6) fear of being lost or isolated in the crowd at public institutions
7) some folks simply prefer everything "private" over "public" no matter
Many private schools have restrictions on changing major or division. CMU is an example where changing into SCS is very difficult. Even Harvard has a restricted major, VES.
That's correct. UC has made no secret about giving admission tips to first gen students. Maybe good public policy, but closes out much of the class to college educated parents. (Approx. 40% of the matriculating Frosh to UCLA and Cal and other UCs are first gen.)
We all have local stories about kids getting into an Ivy but rejected by Cal, or into Stanford and rejected by UCLA.
Then of course, there is ED -- as others have noted, finaid at the Ancient Eight is excellent. For those fortunate to be accepted, it can be cheaper to send a kid back east than to a UC at instate rates.
UCB web sites say 23% of frosh are first generation to college. First generation to college students are more heavily represented among transfer students at 44%.