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Asians @ Ivies

CupCakeMuffinsCupCakeMuffins 816 replies78 threadsRegistered User Member
What are your stats and which Ivies accepted, rejected, deferred or waitlisted you?
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Replies to: Asians @ Ivies

  • damon30damon30 1147 replies5 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited February 11
    You will probably have better luck using the CC search function, with a search like:

    asian accepted decision results

    and then Ctrl-F through the pages with "Asian".
    edited February 11
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  • funuggetsfunuggets 18 replies5 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    Hi, I know quite a few Asians who are going to Ivies. One of my friends goes to Dartmouth. He only got a 1450 on the SAT, but his GPA was 4.67 and he got 4's and 5's on all his AP tests. I think he is pre-med. The other girl got into Dartmouth ED this year, and her ACT is 33. I don't know about her GPA. I also have two friends who are going to Stanford (I know it isn't an ivy but). One got a 1500 on her SAT, and the other got 1580. They both had good GPAs; one of them was salutatorian.
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  • bertieprcbertieprc 23 replies0 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    Yeah..1580 still deferred. scores dont mean much, especially if you are asian
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  • exlibris97exlibris97 1032 replies7 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited March 8
    @bertieprc Scores don't mean much period. Sadly, many students and parents still think that a very high score is a big deal. Not anymore. The Harvard Club I work with had fewer students admitted EA with very high SAT scores than more modest ones. Financial circumstances however DO matter. Harvard and all the Ivies are aiming for economic diversity and so they do take into account economic circumstances and how these may have affected a candidate's preparation. Lower- and middle- income Asian students are increasingly well represented thanks to the new financial aid policies.
    edited March 8
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  • RichInPittRichInPitt 804 replies10 threadsRegistered User Member
    With approx. 3,500 perfect Math and 2,700 perfect verbal scores and about 1900 students accepted at Harvard, SAT scores certainly won't get you in. They are meaningful on the low end, but once you're at/above 1530-50 or so, you're just in a generic "good test scores" group and you move on to the other categories for evaluation. 1580 isn't going to move you way ahead of a 1530.
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  • damon30damon30 1147 replies5 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    @RichinPitt This is true in general, but maybe not in one specific sense. During the recent lawsuit, it was revealed that Harvard used a metric called the "Academic Index" which reduced GPA, SAT/ACT and SAT II subject tests to an integer from 1-9. CC won't let me link to it, but if you Google "academic index calculator", you can find a site that claims to replicate the computation. To get a top AI score, you really do need something very close to a 36 ACT or 1600 SAT and 4.0 UW GPA. Now whether or not there are a real difference in acceptance rates between a "9" and an "8" is another story, but it's probably better to be a "9" if possible.
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  • websensationwebsensation 2084 replies38 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    After certain level of GPA and test scores, I don't think these stats matter that much at all. For example, I don't think 3.9 vs. 4.0 GPA matters that much, as well as 33 ACT vs. 35 ACT or 1500 vs. 1570.
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  • CupCakeMuffinsCupCakeMuffins 816 replies78 threadsRegistered User Member
    If there was a way to tell who took test once and prepped himself/herself and who spent hundreds of hours at prep centers and took multiple attempts.
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  • CupCakeMuffinsCupCakeMuffins 816 replies78 threadsRegistered User Member
    edited April 8
    It’s never about academic achievement or personal talent but about adding to diversity of all sorts and meeting institutional needs. Don’t ever take your rejection personally. You can work hard to be all that and more but you can’t control how dice is being played any given year. People who think they made it to one because they were somehow better than others, are delusional.
    edited April 8
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  • damon30damon30 1147 replies5 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    @TiggerDad +1. I would tag your post with both "agree" and "helpful" if I could.
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  • yucca10yucca10 1241 replies37 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    @TiggerDad I agree with most of what you say, but I see a contradiction here. Your son, as well as other students "with unique and highest level of accomplishments", obviously worked very hard to get to this level in music or other areas. In fact, I'm not that competent in music but I believe that reaching a reasonably high level in music requires much more work and practice than a perfect test score or a perfect GPA. This doesn't seem to me to be the same as just "enjoying the high school years".

    In my view, it's not that you don't need a perfect GPA or test scores to get into the ivies, it's just that these numbers are not considered impressive achievements any more compared to other things applicants excel in. They just need to be high enough to show a necessary degree of general academic ability. Looking around, I see that athletic achievements are given the most weight, and I think Asian parents may be starting to catch up on this. (We're not Asian but my son has tons of Asian friends.)
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  • TiggerDadTiggerDad 1843 replies70 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited April 8
    @yucca10

    I can see why you see a contradiction. However, there really isn't. My son's high school years weren't a pleasant walk in the park, for sure. The greatest challenge for me as a parent was time management and then stress management, both for me and my son's. I'm sure his fellow musicians at his college -- seemingly all with pre-college Juilliard, NEC, Colburn, etc. backgrounds with about a dozen concerto competition wins under each of their belts -- and their parents have sacrificed tremendously since young age. All throughout high school, my son's schedule for his loaded IB school work, community service, EC's, including Taekwondo competitions and varsity tennis tournaments, and his weekly lessons an hour drive away, another hour drive away for his weekly youth symphony rehearsals and concerts, a daily practicing violin, traveling around the state and the country for violin competitions and other events -- they certainly don't seem to leave any room or even a breathing space to include his social activities. But my son has a gregarious personality, and he just had to have his social life going.

    The most frustrating and stressful thing for me was managing his time, especially being sure to get a decent sleep (he eked out extra sleep during our 2-3 trips a week an hour drive away, so he got two hours of sleep during each of my drives), and managing his stress level. He often had to forego his daily violin practice, and I gladly exchanged his violin practice for his maintenance of social life. We often had to apologize to his private teacher for not having prepared at all for the whole preceding week, but he fortunately was very tolerant and understanding. After all, my son wasn't the only high school student that often showed up to his lessons unprepared. Just about all of his high school students in his studio ended up at HYP or Juilliard and NEC.

    Something had to go, of course, and it was often his violin practices. In his middle school years, he practiced about 3-4 hours a day and was able to manage his academics and social life, but once in high school, he only managed about an hour a day of practice at best until he hit his junior year. That's when he started to "wing it." He was pretty much a well established violinist by then that he was able to get away with hardly any daily practices. It also helped that he didn't want to become a career professional violinist by then. Still, in his Jr. and Sr. years, he only managed about 5 hours of sleep a day. When he told me one day in the first semester of his Sr. year that he decided to join the regional volleyball team on top of everything else going on his life, I almost pulled out all of my hair and had a primal scream. Until then, he had never indicated that he was even remotely interested in volleyball. After all, Asians can't jump. We're vertically challenged. I relented in the end thinking that the tournaments are going to be held locally. When I found out much later that each tournament was going to be held about an hour drive away..... my resentment as his private chauffeur/dad reached an all time high (no, my son still to this day doesn't have a driver's license. We didn't have the time).

    Going back to the OP's topic, yes, Asians are catching up to the changes in the admissions landscape. Many of them are still stuck in the old paradigm but many others are now fully cognizant of what "it takes" to get through the Ivy gates. It's now a very familiar scene with Asians represented in multiple sports, as you noted. I see more Asians in the music scene, however, especially with string instruments more than any other kind. It's typical to witness at any youth symphonies to see Asians dominating the string section. In fact, I believe that the National Youth Orchestra of USA (NYO-USA) is actually practicing quota on Asian string players. If the NYO-USA's audition for string players is done strictly by skill levels alone, i.e., racially blind, then the NYO-USA would look more like NYO-China with the front string section all looking Asian. It's interesting to see how NYO-USA's auditioning process works quite similar to the admissions at elite colleges. The state of CA alone has enough talented Asian string players alone to fill the entire NYO-USA, but the organization has a need to fill the orchestra with geographic and racial diversity to make it "look" like the USA, not an Asian country.
    edited April 8
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  • momofsenior1momofsenior1 6996 replies50 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    @yucca10 - I totally disagree that years of practice in music conflicts with enjoying the high school years. My daughter finds stress relief in her music. She's in the practice room almost daily at college because it's decompression time for her. It was the same in HS. She's also the kind of person who thoroughly enjoys performing and never stressed out about competitions or recitals. She adored accompanying the choir, leading music rehearsals in theater, etc.....It was 100% fun for her.

    I think it totally depends on the kid!
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  • tdy123tdy123 688 replies14 threadsRegistered User Member
    @TiggerDad Even if you're "not one of those Asian-Americans who believe that there's some sort of insidious and intentional racism targeting Asians to keep them out of the Ivy gates." Do you see even a hint of a problem in Harvard scoring Asian applicants lower than any other group on the purely subjective "personality traits" measure?
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  • skieuropeskieurope 38897 replies6871 threadsSuper Moderator Super Moderator
    edited April 8
    MODERATOR'S NOTE:
    Do you see even a hint of a problem in Harvard scoring Asian applicants lower than any other group on the purely subjective "personality traits" measure?
    Not the OP's purpose of this thread. If you want to continue the conversation, please do so on the megathread. Other off-topic discussions should be avoided.
    https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1843141-race-in-college-applications-faq-discussion-12.html#latest
    edited April 8
    Post edited by skieurope on
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  • hebegebehebegebe 2662 replies37 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Still, in his Jr. and Sr. years, he only managed about 5 hours of sleep a day.
    @TiggerDad,

    I always find your posts to have much wisdom, but this is the one thing that we would not allow my kids to do. Of the two, my older one never functioned well with less than 6 hours of night per week. My younger one doesn't need much sleep, but he is a bit of a workaholic, and this is the one place where we laid down the law: Lights out by 11:30, and he gets up past 6:30AM.
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  • TiggerDadTiggerDad 1843 replies70 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited April 8
    @hebegebe

    I cannot disagree with you on this. I was extremely cautious about my son's overall health during his Jr. and Sr. years, and having a good night of sleep each day is a critical factor in maintaining one's health. In spite of the fact that we resorted to "catch up" on his sleep during each of our two hour trips, but I was fully aware that that wasn't an ideal solution. My frustration as a parent stemmed from the fact that my son kept finding new interests without his willingness to drop what's already on his full plate. Even after all the admission dusts were settled, he still felt that he lost out on pursuing his interests to the full. That's the sole reason why he opted to take a gap year to spend every hour at his disposal to pursue whatever the personal interests that remained unfulfilled. Primarily, that was his interest in experimental music-making that was outside of his classical training. Even during his high school years, he'd often go downstairs to the basement past midnight to make music of his own imagination. That was his way of dealing with the stress. After his first semester of college, which went very well, he called one day to thank me for allowing him to take what turned out to be a critical gap year.

    In college now, he's getting more sleep than ever.
    edited April 8
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  • websensationwebsensation 2084 replies38 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited April 20
    I will be as honest as I can here. My kid didn't have any "passion" (except for the League of Legend addiction which thankfully lasted only one year) which so many elite colleges ask an applicant to demonstrate, and it never occurred to us that our kid would even want to apply to one of HYPSM. But having gotten into an Ivy myself with a 3.0 GPA in high school, I knew from my own experience that perfect GPA and test scores are not needed; instead, something that sets you apart is the key. For each applicant, this something can be different, and you may not be able to come up with that something. Essentially, our non-STEM, non-musical, non-athletic kid learned to develop a focused interest EC area based off his unique life experiences that exposed to him to different languages and cultures. In fact, only high school classes in which he got A+s were in language classes. Although he didn't hate his high school, he didn't love it either; but he hung in there academically (but really didn't study that hard compared to other high stats kids because he almost always slept before 11:30 PM) getting many A-s and several B+s in AP STEM classes and pursuing ECs in both high school and outside high school. If luck had not been on his side, he could easily have finished his high school with 5~6 B+s. He was around top 5% GPA (3.9 GPA) wise and had 2160 SAT and 33 ACT (but he somehow became NMF). He applied to just 5 colleges: Stanford REA as well as Berkeley, UCLA and 2 Honors Colleges with merit money. He got into all of them. I wanted him to attend Honors for almost free, but my wife was adamant that he attend Stanford which was number 1 choice of our kid, so he's attending there now as a full pay.

    I am here to tell you you don't need to play music or participate in athletics or have 35+ ACT or 4.0 GPA to get into one of HYPSM. What you need to do is to somehow set yourself apart from other applicants. For our kid, that was his life experiences and effort he made in being "advanced" in 4 languages including English. We never had him learn language to get admitted to college, but we believed early on in the value of being able to speak multi languages and being familiar with many cultures over excelling in academics.

    I am the first to admit that there were at least 15 to 20 students at my kid's high school who had higher GPAs, but none of them got into any HYPSM. In fact 70 kids from my kid's high school applied to Stanford and also Harvard, and no one got in except for my kid. Unfair? Yes, in some ways. But I am confident that my kid's application was more memorable than other kids' applications. Still unfair? Yes, but that's the way admission works. And it's perfectly fine to get denied from top colleges because it does not mean you are less smart or less deserving.

    Our kid is enjoying some courses at Stanford and managed to get a summer internship abroad using his language skills. I don't even know what his GPA is; I hope it's around 3.5+, not 2.9 GPA like his dad. lol Our kid won't even tell us. lol Anyway, I myself would have been perfectly fine with our kid going to Honors College for free, but at the same time, I understand why our kid wanted to attend Stanford.

    In retrospect, our kid was lucky in this sense: what if there were many kids who spoke 4 languages and had 4.0 GPA and perfect test scores who applied to Stanford? I still think our kid had a chance because he wrote some essays that showed what mattered to him.

    Also, I urge all high stats Asian-American kids to apply to at least one Honors College because you will never regret graduating from a college debt free. Our kid had several good back-ups even if he were rejected from Stanford, Berkeley or UCLA -- that's the part I wish to emphasize. As long as you have good backups, you can let chips fall where they will and go forward. It's ok for you to go for a homerun but make sure you get on the base first.
    edited April 20
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  • 4greens4greens 2 replies2 threadsRegistered User New Member
    Like other students, my Asian American son who is now a rising senior, at Yale, was admitted with excellent test scores and stellar academic background . What he also brought to the table was that he excelled in a personal interest at the absolute highest level. Every one of his freshman roommates had also excelled in something outside of traditional academics. They were an amazing group of 4 very different people with each marveling and respecting each other's ability. Students with high test scores are a dime a dozen. What else does your student have that makes the unique?
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