Fraternity controversy at Swarthmore

AlmostThere2018 · May 2019

Any school with such a small fraternity presence means those orgs are by nature marginalized and ripe for controversy. A college should either have Greek life (and closely monitor it) or not -- having a tiny sliver of your student body take part seems unwise.

That said, Swat is known for lots of student dissent -- didn't they do prolonged sit-ins in the President's office a few years ago?

My D's great friend goes there now. I know several alums. It's a great school academically, but i knew for my D that kind of intense campus politics would be exhausting and distracting so I was glad when she didn't even want to visit.

twoinanddone · May 2019

If fraternities and sororities are so horrible, why do they continue to grow? Why do students even want to join them, go underground to form them, pay money to belong? At Swarthmore, 1 in 10 male students want to join a frat. Is the recruiting pitch "hey, come join and we'll rape girls and do drugs"? I bet not.

donnaleighg · May 2019

according to my son (Swat 2018) one frat was pretty much indistinguishable from the lacrosse team, and the other more or less indistinguishable from the baseball team. Someone upthread mentioned the same regarding the lacrosse team (Phi Psi). So it's not really that 1 in 10 males wants to join a frat-- it's more that those teams have a "party house." Seems completely unnecessary, and I agree with others that it is antithetic to the Quaker philosophy, even before the disgusting allegations described. Good riddance (I say as an alum myself-- and in my day DU was associated with the football team-- so not much has changed, other than that Swat no longer has a football team).

Publisher · May 2019

I know of an LAC that closed all 6 fraternities for several years due to excessive partying. Eventually reopened two fraternities--the jock frat & the druggie frat. I suspect that the rest of the student body was happy to be segregated from both groups.

FlaParent · May 2019

Trixy34 wrote: Personally, I feel that there is no use/reason for greek societies on most campuses. I would love to see them abolished at more schools. They make college shopping all the more difficult for students who do not want to rush. what you want to quote

What a frightening thought process. Take a choice away (joining a frat/sorority) because it might make it harder for someone who does not want to be in one? Wow! Just wow!

ucbalumnus · May 2019

Publisher wrote:

I know of an LAC that closed all 6 fraternities for several years due to excessive partying. Eventually reopened two fraternities--the jock frat & the druggie frat. I suspect that the rest of the student body was happy to be segregated from both groups.

Did the "jock" one dominate the social scene for athletes (or a particular team's athletes) to the point that it was hard to ignore by athletes who were not interested?

ninakatarina · May 2019

Kids that age want to have parties. They want a social place to hang out with people who are like them. In many cases they are mature enough to maintain those places without creating a culture of predatory sexuality. If the culture goes sour, however, they need to lose privileges.

The frat houses at Swarthmore are gorgeous buildings in a very nice part of campus. I'm sure there are a lot of other uses the college community could put those buildings to rather than just being a playground for a very small number of students.

santaclaradad · May 2019

Swarthmore would do well to follow the lead of the many other LACs in the northeast who have disbanded fraternities and sororities. When my daughter was applying to colleges last fall, she was mainly focused on colleges that have abolished greek life completely. I am glad she will be attending one with no greek life whatever.

Publisher · May 2019

@ucbalumnus: My understanding is that the school brought in a new president who had been a member of that jock frat as a student at that LAC & wanted to bring it back. To the best of my knowledge, the frat involved jocks from several different teams & the community was pleased to have them living & dining elsewhere.

ucbalumnus · May 2019

santaclaradad wrote:

When my daughter was applying to colleges last fall, she was mainly focused on colleges that have abolished greek life completely.

Wouldn't all colleges that prohibit student participation in fraternities and sororities be private ones?

Trixy34 · May 2019

@santaclaradad - I'm glad you were able to find a school for her. My son passed up some otherwise good schools because of the prevalance of greek societies on campus. I suppose at a large school, it would be easier to find your own social niche away and apart from the Frats, but finding a small school where the social life isn't dominated by societes can be a bit of a challenge.

yourmomma · May 2019

Trixy34 wrote: Personally, I feel that there is no use/reason for greek societies on most campuses. I would love to see them abolished at more schools. They make college shopping all the more difficult for students who do not want to rush. what you want to quote

What a frightening thought process. Take a choice away (joining a frat/sorority) because it might make it harder for someone who does not want to be in one? Wow! Just wow!

While we are at it, lets just get rid of all clubs and extra activities. Heck at my kid's school the Dance team and Korean student association are in trouble. "Ban them all," I say.

ucbalumnus · May 2019

Trixy34 wrote:

finding a small school where the social life isn't dominated by societes can be a bit of a challenge.

You can look up the percentage of students in fraternities and sororities in the college's common data set section F1.

For a student not interested in them, a smaller percentage like 11%/3% at Swarthmore is less likely to be an issue than 75%/75% at Washington and Lee -- although students interested in some types of activities may need to see if that activity is dominated by fraternities and sororities (e.g. at Swarthmore, a male lacrosse player not interested in fraternities may not like that most of the team is in Phi Psi).

happymomof1 · May 2019

To be honest, given Swarthmore's Quaker history and culture, this kind of bad behavior is something that I couldn't really imagine even starting at that campus, let alone lasting long enough to create the history that it has. That it took so long to bring a halt to it is disturbing in the Quaker context. What doesn't surprise me, given that context, is that the students themselves took charge and forced and end to it. I expect that there is serious soul-searching going on at Meeting about it all.

Trixy34 · May 2019

1) Yes, I'm fully aware that you can look up what percentage of the student body participate in societies. That doesn't mean a kid can get an admit to a school with low participation, find one that has the departments or programs he/she is looking for, or that he/she can afford to go there if admitted.

2) There is a big difference between the "Korean student association" and a social system that was born out of racism and elitism, that has become a bastion of misogyny, and that too often results in the death or maiming of pledges and the sexual assault of women.

tutumom2001 · May 2019

If the frats are comprised of athletes, how is abolishing the frats going to end the behavior if the kids have another group outlet that will most likely continue it? I would think that the baseball team that is intent on partying is going to find another location to party whether it's at a frat house or elsewhere.

Trixy34 · May 2019

I don't think the main concern is partying. It's about the secrecy and the social pressure to conform to an attitude of misogyny, racism and homophobia.

lastone03 · May 2019

I don't really understand the comments about getting back to the Quaker roots when so many complain, for example, about Catholic universities being too Catholic.

donnaleighg · May 2019

Quakerism is completely different from Catholicism. "Bottom up" as opposed to "Top down" as a start. Personal light as opposed to doctrine. There are no sacraments. Pacifism. Civil disobedience is built in with a long history. Decisions by consensus rather than edict. But I'm not going to give a tutorial.

mamalion · May 2019

Obviously all frats are not the same, but as a group, they are different than other campus organizations. Can you name another campus group with 30 hazing deaths in the last 5 years?

I don’t understand why people defend them.

Fraternity controversy at Swarthmore

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