I don't think any of us are talking about legitimate LD students. *That* would likely be a stigma at my children's very competitive high school, while extra time for a better score is generally not.*
letour17 replies0 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 17Junior Member
More time on the ACT can make a huge difference.
Absolutely. The ACT is primarily a speed test. Extra time is a huge advantage. The preparation for the ACT consists on learning to take the test fast. I know because I tutor kids on taking the ACT. On initial evaluation most students can't finish the practice tests within the allotted time. We then move on to techniques to use to be able to finish without blindly guessing on the last few questions.
On the science section the best approach is to not even bother reading the experiment but go straight to the questions. There is simply not enough time to understand the experiment. On the reading section I teach them how to do speed reading. I tell them not to focus on details but just capture the feeling of the write-up. There is just no time to do any detail reading. On math I teach them how to solve problems with shortcuts. The traditional ways of solving problems (i.e. areas of complex geometric figures or probabilities) simply do not work because they are too time-consuming. Therefore they have to learn tips & tricks to bulldoze to the answer. On the English section you either know it or you don't. For this section, extra time won't help much.
Bottom line is that scores can be increased substantially with the benefit of extra time on the test.
merc8110017 replies148 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 10,165Senior Member
In terms of scandal, this story has it all: people I'd never heard of, a TV show I've never watched, and colleges I mostly don't pay too much attention to.
menloparkmom12432 replies536 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 12,968Senior Member
" It's USC. Worth a shot. "
Ha Ha Ha Ha!
sorry Olivia- hate to break it to you but that is NOT going to happen!
she will be accepted back at USC only when hell freezes over!
menloparkmom12432 replies536 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 12,968Senior Member
edited May 21
“She wants to come out LOOKING like she’s changed, learned life lessons and is growing as a person, so she for sure WANTS people to THINK she is interested in her education.”
wow. just wow! the ignorant hubris of the rich and stupid.
privatebanker5022 replies65 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 5,087Senior Member
@merc81 agree with all the points except the schools themselves. Yale Georgetown Stanford USC. Pretty big names in the old collegiate industrial complex.
Add in Penn with the hoops coach and Harvard with the fencing issue.
Obviously the cheaters are to blame. But for these pretty average candidates to get accepted to these schools underscores the importance of the hook as a difference maker. Obscure sport. In. Race preference. In. High profile but non revenue sport like water polo and track. In.
goddess0015 replies0 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 15Junior Member
In 2017-18 over 13% of public schools had kids on IEPS. Data on IEPs and 504 plan come from different sources. Most recent numbers on accommodations show that 1.5% of students were served solely by 504 plans but that data is relatively dated from school year 2011-2012. 504 plans would equate to accommodations at elite privates most tightly as 504 is reasonable accommodations in the general classroom. Top test in publics (TJ, Stuyvesant etc) would likely equate to privates because a kid with an IEP is unlikely to be able to do the academic work at either. Top publics would likely have a mix of wealthy parents willing to buy accommodations and still have legitimate kids with the need for an IEP.
Top test in publics (TJ, Stuyvesant etc) would likely equate to privates because a kid with an IEP is unlikely to be able to do the academic work at either.
You seem to be equating IEP and intellectual challenge. The point of the accommodations is to mitigate the challenge allowing the student to be able to do academic work at the level of their intellectual ability. My younger son is both gifted and has an LD. The accommodations he is entitled to as outlined in is IEP are designed to mitigate his LD so that he can work to his full potential. It's hard to do that if you are spending extra time and energy compensating for your challenge. Once addressed he is more than capable of handling advanced academic work. In his case it's become less of an issue now that he is older, but that doesn't mean it no longer exists. If it weren't for modern technology though school would much more of a struggle for him. Thankfully much of his work is now done on computer.
goddess0015 replies0 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 15Junior Member
@gwnorth you are absolutely correct-that is an important clarification. Most kids with IEP have significant impediments to learning and academic success. 504 is accommodations in a general classroom.
northwesty3412 replies9 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 3,421Senior Member
"College test anxiety may get you more time, but you still need to know the material. It's not like those kids only get the easy half of a test."
When it comes to actually doing in college, the real issue for many LD kids is that the school can't give you more than 168 hours in a week. So an LD kid in a very challenging school or program often has to grind a lot harder than their classmates.
Getting some extra time on tests is fair and helpful, but isn't all that big of a deal.
A good solution to the accommodation issue would be to design tests that don't rely all that much on time pressure. Most tasks in life aren't like the ACT.
And the biggest problem is not higher SES kids getting accommodations that are marginal or not deserved at all. The big unfairness is the large numbers of lower SES kids who deserve accommodations but who don't get them due the time and expense and parental activism required.
northwesty3412 replies9 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 3,421Senior Member
edited May 23
"Not cost effective, so not a realistic "solution"."
Very easy and cheap actually.
Give everyone 6 hours for the ACT instead of four. That would eliminate the vast majority of accommodations (since the most typical accommodation sought and received is 1.5X time).
While the raw scores might change due to the lessened time pressure, the top 1% of scores will still be the 99th percentile.
lookingforward32752 replies350 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 33,102Senior Member
edited May 23
6 hours is a burden for some. Our GC advised parents that sitting 4 hours instead of 3 is no favor, if you don't truly need it.
In my day, we sat for Iowa Tests from about 2nd grade on, not sure if every year or every other, through maybe 6th. Something in jr and sr high. Many kids today have never sat for even a 3 hour test.
northwesty3412 replies9 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 3,421Senior Member
Give everyone six hours and let kids leave when they are done.
The only reason why you have the accommodation issue is because the test bakes time pressure into the equation. So kids/parents strain to get extra time because it is an advantage. And many kids who deserve accommodations can't get them. Give everyone the opportunity to have up to 1.5X time and that all goes away. The smartest kids will still get the highest scores. The kids who don't need the extra time don't have to use it.
Speediness is certainly a relevant factor in some lines of work -- 100 meter sprints and hitting fastballs -- but to me it seems pretty unrelated to being able to do college level academics.
Replies to: Feds uncover admissions test cheating plot
*I'm not arguing this is right!
Btw, legit accommodations adds time. It's not easier.
Hey why not? It's USC. Worth a shot.
On the science section the best approach is to not even bother reading the experiment but go straight to the questions. There is simply not enough time to understand the experiment. On the reading section I teach them how to do speed reading. I tell them not to focus on details but just capture the feeling of the write-up. There is just no time to do any detail reading. On math I teach them how to solve problems with shortcuts. The traditional ways of solving problems (i.e. areas of complex geometric figures or probabilities) simply do not work because they are too time-consuming. Therefore they have to learn tips & tricks to bulldoze to the answer. On the English section you either know it or you don't. For this section, extra time won't help much.
Bottom line is that scores can be increased substantially with the benefit of extra time on the test.
Ha Ha Ha Ha!
sorry Olivia- hate to break it to you but that is NOT going to happen!
she will be accepted back at USC only when hell freezes over!
wow. just wow! the ignorant hubris of the rich and stupid.
Add in Penn with the hoops coach and Harvard with the fencing issue.
Obviously the cheaters are to blame. But for these pretty average candidates to get accepted to these schools underscores the importance of the hook as a difference maker. Obscure sport. In. Race preference. In. High profile but non revenue sport like water polo and track. In.
When it comes to actually doing in college, the real issue for many LD kids is that the school can't give you more than 168 hours in a week. So an LD kid in a very challenging school or program often has to grind a lot harder than their classmates.
Getting some extra time on tests is fair and helpful, but isn't all that big of a deal.
A good solution to the accommodation issue would be to design tests that don't rely all that much on time pressure. Most tasks in life aren't like the ACT.
And the biggest problem is not higher SES kids getting accommodations that are marginal or not deserved at all. The big unfairness is the large numbers of lower SES kids who deserve accommodations but who don't get them due the time and expense and parental activism required.
Or the SAT, or LSAT or the MCAT or the GRE....
Un-needed (not really LD, but purchased a certificate) extra time on the ACT is huge, particularly for the math and science sections.
Not cost effective, so not a realistic "solution".
Very easy and cheap actually.
Give everyone 6 hours for the ACT instead of four. That would eliminate the vast majority of accommodations (since the most typical accommodation sought and received is 1.5X time).
While the raw scores might change due to the lessened time pressure, the top 1% of scores will still be the 99th percentile.
Done!
In my day, we sat for Iowa Tests from about 2nd grade on, not sure if every year or every other, through maybe 6th. Something in jr and sr high. Many kids today have never sat for even a 3 hour test.
The only reason why you have the accommodation issue is because the test bakes time pressure into the equation. So kids/parents strain to get extra time because it is an advantage. And many kids who deserve accommodations can't get them. Give everyone the opportunity to have up to 1.5X time and that all goes away. The smartest kids will still get the highest scores. The kids who don't need the extra time don't have to use it.
Speediness is certainly a relevant factor in some lines of work -- 100 meter sprints and hitting fastballs -- but to me it seems pretty unrelated to being able to do college level academics.