JHS18300 replies70 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 18,370Senior Member
edited June 11
For a VC, he seems to be exceptionally ignorant of capitalism, innovation, and the forces of the free market. Maybe he should consider those turning those loose on the education system.
It's funny -- This is probably the only country in the world where people talk like that about education and health care, and it has gotten really mixed results. There are some very bright spots of quality -- some associated with "free market" systems, others really not so much -- and a lot of general failure, all at exceptionally high cost. The quality record of large-scale (i.e., not just an individual or two), for-profit providers in both fields is actually horrendous.
reducing the number of unskilled immigrants, whose children overwhelm the existing educational system
privatebanker5017 replies64 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 5,081Senior Member
edited June 11
The author’s views on capitalism and income inequality are very common latent guilt for having been a trust fund hippie and born rich. It’s very common.
But he is not suggesting giving his money away. Just everyone else’s. If he actually had ever once put real risk capital on the table to create something, like mortgaging his house to fund an idea with no customers, then I’d listen a bit more.
The USA and capitalism as an economic model had been the single greatest experiment for raising people out of poverty, innovation in medicine, increased longevity and opportunities for all genders.
It’s got a lot room for improvement and tinkering, sure.
Aside from perhaps a few nordic countries with very few people, large geography, incredible cultural homogeneity and huge natural resources no one is even close.
Along with the USA, Canada is right there too. But certainly a free market capitalistic economic model there as well.
Even they are now starting to feel the pressure. Finland, often cited as an ideal for one is in big trouble.
“Finland's coalition government resigned on Friday a month ahead of a general election, saying it could not deliver on a healthcare reform package that is widely seen as crucial to securing long-term government finances.”
TooOld4School3317 replies12 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 3,329Senior Member
The key is to get skilled immigrants who add value , pay more in taxes then they consume in government services, and start businesses. Their children also tend to be great assets. It has nothing to do with where they are from as long as they assimilate. What is terrible is losing a recent Masters or Ph.D. candidate in a marketable field to other countries because we would not offer them residency and work permits.
sorghum3495 replies109 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 3,604Senior Member
Chinese worker standards are abysmal and it’s an environmental catastrophe.
They are a perfect example of govt control of economic output and industry leading to real income inequality. Try being middle class there.
Well, I live, teach, research and own and operate a factory in China, and my experience is nothing like yours. I think you are very out of date with your impressions.
The key is to get skilled immigrants who add value , pay more in taxes then they consume in government services, and start businesses. Their children also tend to be great assets. It has nothing to do with where they are from as long as they assimilate. What is terrible is losing a recent Masters or Ph.D. candidate in a marketable field to other countries because we would not offer them residency and work permits.
Your pleasant living arrangements are purely anecdotal in such a large country. It’s vastness is staggering.
But here are but two of countless research articles - and remember we are not taking about a government known for transparency. It’s probably much worse.
The per capital income of the average Chinese citizen compared to party members and government elite (including joint venture billionaires and Uber wealthy) is not comparable to us worker standards.
If we leave the obvious worker and income disparity issues aside.
Here’s the but a glimpse into some of the issues. It’s just not a comparison between countries and environmental stewardship and oversight.
And unless 2013 to 2018 is what would be regarded as ancient history, I stand by my statement 100 percent.
China ‘environment census’ reveals 50% rise in pollution sources
“Ministry says country has 9m sources of pollution, with factories breaking emissions rules the big problem”
The Guardian -UK
Lily Kuo in Hong Kong
Fri 30 Mar 2018 21.50 EDT
Another article....deforestation, early death, rivers unfit for human contact, very bad water and the global carbon coal polluter among other things.
“China’s mounting environmental crisis is endangering the pace of its economic growth and threatening the legitimacy of the ruling party.
Backgrounder by Eleanor Albert and Beina Xu
Last updated January 18, 2016”
“China’s environmental crisis is one of the most pressing challenges to emerge from the country’s rapid industrialization.
China is the world’s largest source of carbon emissions, and the air quality of many of its major cities fails to meet international health standards.
Life expectancy north of the Huai River is 5.5 years lower than in the south due to air pollution (life expectancy in China is 75.3 years, according to 2013 UN figures).
Severe water contamination and scarcity have compounded land deterioration.
Environmental degradation threatens to undermine the country’s growth and exhausts public patience with the pace of reform.
with reports from late 2015 implying that it consumed up to 17 percent more coal than previously reported.
In January 2013, Beijing experienced a prolonged bout of smog so severe that citizens dubbed it an “airpocalypse”; the concentration of hazardous particles was forty times the level deemed safe by the World Health Organization (WHO).
In December 2015, Beijing issued red alerts for severe pollution—the first since the emergency alert system was established. The municipal government closed schools, limited road traffic, halted outdoor construction, and paused factory manufacturing.
At least 80 percent of China’s 367 cities with real-time air quality monitoring failed to meet national small-particle pollution standards during the first three quarters of 2015, according to a Greenpeace East Asia report.
In December 2015, the Asian Development Bank approved a $300 million loan to help China address the capital region’s choking smog.
Industry along China’s major water sources has polluted water supplies: In 2014, groundwater supplies in more than 60 percent of major cities were categorized as “bad to very bad,” and more than a quarter of China’s key rivers are “unfit for human contact.” And lack of waste removal and proper processing has exacerbated problems.
Combined with negligent farming practices, overgrazing, and the effects of climate change, the water crisis has turned much of China’s arable land into desert.
About 1.05 million square miles of China’s landmass are undergoing desertification, affecting more than 400 million people, according to the deputy head of China’s State Forestry Administration.
Water scarcity, pollution, and desertification are reducing China’s ability to sustain its industrial output and produce food and drinkable water for its large population”
sorghum3495 replies109 discussionsRegistered UserPosts: 3,604Senior Member
I didn't say anything about my "pleasant living conditions", and I travel extensively in China, mostly in rural areas. My opinions are derived from more than personal anecdote. I even read articles about China.
Chinese lower level workers are usually literate, sober, hardworking and productive. The technical workers have good education and are not the unimaginative drones of US mythology.
The middle class is thriving and expanding. There are great opportunities for young people to work hard and do well. The GINI coefficient of China and US, per CIA data, are almost identical.
You can find an article about dreadful pollution in almost any country. On the ground, the situation in China is not nearly as bad as that article says. And yes 2013 was a long time ago in Chinese development. As you say, it's a big country, there are clean and dirty depending where you go.
Replies to: The Atlantic: Better Schools Won’t Fix America
It's funny -- This is probably the only country in the world where people talk like that about education and health care, and it has gotten really mixed results. There are some very bright spots of quality -- some associated with "free market" systems, others really not so much -- and a lot of general failure, all at exceptionally high cost. The quality record of large-scale (i.e., not just an individual or two), for-profit providers in both fields is actually horrendous.
As if.
Here is an article adapted from one his chapters:
https://bigthink.com/big-think-books/steven-pinker-enlightenment-now-inequality-happiness
But he is not suggesting giving his money away. Just everyone else’s. If he actually had ever once put real risk capital on the table to create something, like mortgaging his house to fund an idea with no customers, then I’d listen a bit more.
The USA and capitalism as an economic model had been the single greatest experiment for raising people out of poverty, innovation in medicine, increased longevity and opportunities for all genders.
It’s got a lot room for improvement and tinkering, sure.
Aside from perhaps a few nordic countries with very few people, large geography, incredible cultural homogeneity and huge natural resources no one is even close.
Along with the USA, Canada is right there too. But certainly a free market capitalistic economic model there as well.
Even they are now starting to feel the pressure. Finland, often cited as an ideal for one is in big trouble.
“Finland's coalition government resigned on Friday a month ahead of a general election, saying it could not deliver on a healthcare reform package that is widely seen as crucial to securing long-term government finances.”
They are a perfect example of govt control of economic output and industry leading to real income inequality. Try being middle class there.
Open markets help.
Of course not unbridled or without oversight. Plenty of room there for helping.
Also we do need to look at eliminating poverty. I would support a special tax trust fund for the ultra rich to help the ultra poor.
But the give a person a fish and they eat for a day. Teach them to fish they eat for a lifetime does have some merit.
It’s so complex. But no one should go hungry. Food at school should be free for all kids. Adults too.
Well, I live, teach, research and own and operate a factory in China, and my experience is nothing like yours. I think you are very out of date with your impressions.
Or because they are held under suspicion because of their national origin and contacts with those where they immigrated from?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-13/the-u-s-is-purging-chinese-americans-from-top-cancer-research
Your pleasant living arrangements are purely anecdotal in such a large country. It’s vastness is staggering.
But here are but two of countless research articles - and remember we are not taking about a government known for transparency. It’s probably much worse.
The per capital income of the average Chinese citizen compared to party members and government elite (including joint venture billionaires and Uber wealthy) is not comparable to us worker standards.
If we leave the obvious worker and income disparity issues aside.
Here’s the but a glimpse into some of the issues. It’s just not a comparison between countries and environmental stewardship and oversight.
And unless 2013 to 2018 is what would be regarded as ancient history, I stand by my statement 100 percent.
China ‘environment census’ reveals 50% rise in pollution sources
“Ministry says country has 9m sources of pollution, with factories breaking emissions rules the big problem”
The Guardian -UK
Lily Kuo in Hong Kong
Fri 30 Mar 2018 21.50 EDT
Another article....deforestation, early death, rivers unfit for human contact, very bad water and the global carbon coal polluter among other things.
“China’s mounting environmental crisis is endangering the pace of its economic growth and threatening the legitimacy of the ruling party.
Backgrounder by Eleanor Albert and Beina Xu
Last updated January 18, 2016”
“China’s environmental crisis is one of the most pressing challenges to emerge from the country’s rapid industrialization.
China is the world’s largest source of carbon emissions, and the air quality of many of its major cities fails to meet international health standards.
Life expectancy north of the Huai River is 5.5 years lower than in the south due to air pollution (life expectancy in China is 75.3 years, according to 2013 UN figures).
Severe water contamination and scarcity have compounded land deterioration.
Environmental degradation threatens to undermine the country’s growth and exhausts public patience with the pace of reform.
with reports from late 2015 implying that it consumed up to 17 percent more coal than previously reported.
In January 2013, Beijing experienced a prolonged bout of smog so severe that citizens dubbed it an “airpocalypse”; the concentration of hazardous particles was forty times the level deemed safe by the World Health Organization (WHO).
In December 2015, Beijing issued red alerts for severe pollution—the first since the emergency alert system was established. The municipal government closed schools, limited road traffic, halted outdoor construction, and paused factory manufacturing.
At least 80 percent of China’s 367 cities with real-time air quality monitoring failed to meet national small-particle pollution standards during the first three quarters of 2015, according to a Greenpeace East Asia report.
In December 2015, the Asian Development Bank approved a $300 million loan to help China address the capital region’s choking smog.
Industry along China’s major water sources has polluted water supplies: In 2014, groundwater supplies in more than 60 percent of major cities were categorized as “bad to very bad,” and more than a quarter of China’s key rivers are “unfit for human contact.” And lack of waste removal and proper processing has exacerbated problems.
Combined with negligent farming practices, overgrazing, and the effects of climate change, the water crisis has turned much of China’s arable land into desert.
About 1.05 million square miles of China’s landmass are undergoing desertification, affecting more than 400 million people, according to the deputy head of China’s State Forestry Administration.
Water scarcity, pollution, and desertification are reducing China’s ability to sustain its industrial output and produce food and drinkable water for its large population”
Chinese lower level workers are usually literate, sober, hardworking and productive. The technical workers have good education and are not the unimaginative drones of US mythology.
The middle class is thriving and expanding. There are great opportunities for young people to work hard and do well. The GINI coefficient of China and US, per CIA data, are almost identical.
You can find an article about dreadful pollution in almost any country. On the ground, the situation in China is not nearly as bad as that article says. And yes 2013 was a long time ago in Chinese development. As you say, it's a big country, there are clean and dirty depending where you go.