I Just Had to Vent
OneMoreKid
63 replies9 threads Junior Member
Our son's a freshman at a not-"elite" school and said on a recent visit that he can't imagine himself anywhere else. Near perfect SAT, ACT and all 5's on all AP Exams. Ran a successful and legitimate international charity and an all-state musician. Not to mention a ridiculously nice kid who said, after being rejected from all Ivy Leagues applied to, that he's glad that underprivileged kids get some of these amazing opportunities (when all of the "adults" in the room were saying, "...").
So, a year out and looking back, I see A LOT of kids and their parents in a mad scramble to out-college-counselor each other, weird secretive behavior and a lot of disrespect to parents (who will be FOOTING THE BILL).
The reality check, in many cases, is pending, but it's a shame that so many parents have completely lost control.
It's unfortunate that you're causing your kids to miss out on some remarkably amazing world-class experiences even if they're not the high & mighty elite schools.
Someone last year, too, said to be careful for what you wish for - you might just get it (and then what).
36 replies So, a year out and looking back, I see A LOT of kids and their parents in a mad scramble to out-college-counselor each other, weird secretive behavior and a lot of disrespect to parents (who will be FOOTING THE BILL).
The reality check, in many cases, is pending, but it's a shame that so many parents have completely lost control.
It's unfortunate that you're causing your kids to miss out on some remarkably amazing world-class experiences even if they're not the high & mighty elite schools.
Someone last year, too, said to be careful for what you wish for - you might just get it (and then what).
Replies to: I Just Had to Vent
It not possible to understand where each family is in their lives and what they desire/prioritize. I read into your post that you have discovered the magic elixir of life and if only the rest of the world knew what you knew, the world would be a far better place.
There used to be a "smile and nod" post in CC where people would share stories about others with the recommendation that you simply smile and nod when someone says something that is sanctimonious and self-serving. Face to face, that is exactly what I would have done. Given that this is an internet board, however, let me be the first to say that this vent seems to say more about you than those that you are chiding.
OP, So glad your son is happy in his school! My oldest ended up at one of her "safety" schools 6 years ago and we absolutely thank heaven every time we think about it because she ended up with amazing opportunities there that led to a dream career, opportunities that her "reach/dream" school simply could not have provided. Life is wonderful like that sometimes and it's why so many BTDT parents here stand by the saying that the kids end up where they're meant to be - it's hard to hear when you're in the weeds of applications/rejections but so often at the end it really just seems to work out fine.
"High and mighty elite schools" ???? Just beware of sounding like sour grapes when your intention is the opposite
Financidal aid at elite schools is certainly one of the biggest pluses, and it covers families with incomes up to $150k or sometimes beyond, at schools like Harvard.
My wife and I are a bit disappointed our D21 isn't aiming higher. She has a 3.95 UW and 1350, but her top choice right now is Northern Arizona. Other schools on her list are Utah, Utah State, Montana State, Oregon State, and Idaho. We know that she needs to go where she is comfortable, but she keeps saying she doesn't want to go to a school with a bunch of really smart people where she'll be the dumb one. We have no illusions that she would get into a T20 or anything, but we don't want her to sell herself short.
But we also know in the end it's really not going to matter. College is what you make of it and she can get a good education and have a great experience at any of these schools.
Now I'm not saying all of Yale or Ivy Leagues are bad, but from what I have heard and experienced I have not heard good things and the greedy competitive nature of these schools might not be right for someone.
The best thing about going to a "not so elite" school with good stats is that you will probably get a lot more attention. It's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. Getting the attention you need from professors/faculty, can really help develop the student.
It's been reported that the college you attend does not impact the opportunities you have after. Simple examples are hygienists- some will attend a private college and get their BS while others will attend a community college and get their BA. In the end, they both get the same job.
If I would have pushed him to apply for out of state big name schools, even if he would have made it into one on them , he would have failed because he was not mature and motivated enough. Plus, some kids like the flexibility of a not so academically challenging college. A lot of smart people are self- taught and they need college just for a little guidance or mentoring.
I'm a big believer in this. Of course there are times when people need to push themselves and jump in the big pond, but many times they would have been better served in the smaller one.
@1Benice I agree, they need to find their own path.
However, I do feel compelled to comment about Guy’s above comments about Yale students. While my own kids do not attend Yale, I know several kids who are current students (and many adult alumni), as well as dozens of kids at comparable schools. This characterization of them bears no resemblance to the students I know.
While I believe the incident with the late (rude) students occurred, with them rifling through her computer files, and agree that is absolutely atrocious behavior, I would find such horrific behavior to be extremely unusual and not typical of Yale students. And I believe horrible, atrocious behavior probably happens in small doses on all campuses, and would not be unique to Yale-equivalent schools. I think characterizing these schools as greedy feels completely false to me, and in general the students I know at these schools are well above average in their level of respectful behavior. I’m not saying they are all saints and perfect humans, but this characterization doesn’t ring true, and it sounds like the sister professor is probably not in the right job for herself if she feels everyone around her is disrespectful. Something is off.
OP, I’m glad things worked out for your child. I’m sure you didn’t mean for your post to sound like sour grapes, but mostly wanted to point out that there are many paths to successful lives; don’t be discouraged if your dream school doesn’t work out.
Anyone applying to college should consider whether they want a small class with a professor in the room, or a large lecture with sections run by grad student TA's (or sometimes a small class that still has sections with TA's, which might be the best).
Schools like Harvard and Yale have amazing financial aid. Amazing professors, resources and peers. But yes, everyone there is very smart and/or talented and that is also a consideration, if a young person tends toward self-doubt.
I think it is wonderful that the OP's kid is happy. I think that we should honor all choices, including the choice to attend an Ivy or other selective school if that is the best fit and cost. No need to bash a group of schools just to feel good about another school.
I agree there is no reason to bash a school. But to the general question of why Harvard or Yale, if it's because of the small classes with professors as opposed to TAs, good financial aid, and great resources and peers, there are plenty of schools that can provide that.
What they have that other schools can't match is the prestige. The backlash, such as it is, is because so many people (applicants and parents) have bought into the idea that the top rated schools provide an experience that is so much better than every other school, and if you are a high-achieving student you are a failure if you don't go to one.
These schools aren't getting so many applicants because they actually offer an and experience that is so much better than everywhere else, it's because students are being told that they are so much better. Then come April there will be a bunch of posts from students and parents who are devastated they didn't get into any of their top 12 choices and have to go to a match or safety school, and some who didn't bother to apply to a real safety so have no acceptance anywhere.
One has a line out the door and everyone says how great it is. The the other restaurant has open seats.
If you’ve never been to either we just love to go wait in that line for some reason.
And since most of us couldn’t have possibly been to any of the schools simultaneously or in the recent past, there’s no way to really know for sure. We probably couldn’t really tell anyone the difference.
It’s just a thing. Not the end of the world but it’s mostly an illusion created by us and self fulfilling.
Now if the service or food isn’t as good. That’s a different story. However among great restaurants it really is very subjective. It’s the same with schools cars towns houses etc.
Source? Because I suspect that the PERCEIVED value of a college comes from its brand, not the content of the learning. Makes sense as few bother to investigate the differences between the learnings at college a vs. b. But the actual impact of a college degree is surely not driven 80% by its brand. I know of many studies which would refute that.