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Georgia Tech/Michigan/UIUC/UCB/UCLA/UCSD/USC/ Case or Austin for Computer Engg
barca2018
42 replies9 threads Junior Member
Very fortunate that DS20 has been admitted to these fantastic programs for computer engineering. We are instate for the UCs and so we know them pretty well . We were hoping to visit the out of state schools during spring break. That is obviously not happening. We have checked the rankings etc. but that alone IMHO is not enough to pick a school. Cost really is not a factor but we are not keen to throw money away, if we don't have to. If anyone has any input regarding these choices, it would be much appreciated.
20 replies
Replies to: Georgia Tech/Michigan/UIUC/UCB/UCLA/UCSD/USC/ Case or Austin for Computer Engg
Don't see the point of paying more for the other options.
I agree that based on cost alone the UC's should be on top of the list, except Case where there is pretty decent merit scholarship. Tech seems to have a great Co-op program that can lower cost and from what we have heard, Michigan seems to have a different energy, not sure if it is worth 120K though
Disadvantage to UMich is OOS cost and weather. As a CA family, we decided on UMich.
Compared to an LAC? No, of course not. I’m judging based on what my kid tells me and the CDS. Student-faculty ratio is 15:1 at UMich. Cal and UCLA are 19:1 to 20:1. UMich ratio has been stable at 15:1 for at least 20 years. Cal and UCLA have crept up over the years.
Some reasons why student/faculty ratio doesn't tell the whole story of class size:
-- In my example from earlier, a lecturer (or, say, two) can teach a class with five sections at different day and time, or teach one. A lot of colleges would rather have just one class, because it will ease classroom bookings and other logistical matters, like scheduling finals. The more class finals there are, the greater chance of day-and-time conflicts for individual students. It could free up their schedules for a combination of classes, but there are also time constraints related to a week. So in this example, there is no difference in student/faculty ratio, but the course per my example, has approximately 1/5 of the enrollment in five sections, compared to the course offering having one.
-- There are research-based institutions and teaching-based ones. Obviously for the latter, there don't have to be as many faculty because they're not as concerned about propping up the college's rankings of departments by producing research. The typical community college in CA has really small classes, but their student-faculty ratio is guaranteed to be not very good.
-- The universities with a greater proportion of grad students to undergrad will mean lesser allotment to undergrad students. But don't expect many colleges to distinguish between the two by reporting student/faculty ratios for only undergrads.
-- What comprises the faculty in the ratio? Contracted faculty obviously don't count in the figures. But Cal and UCLA obviously have a good proportion of these as do other colleges who are not counted in full-time faculty.
My point is that student-faculty ratios can be and are gamed also, and they don't tell the whole story of class size.
How this relates to Cal and UCLA v. Michigan? I kind of doubt that Michigan has materially smaller classes.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherrim/2019/07/26/uc-berkeley-removed-from-us-news-college-rankings-for-misreporting-statistics/#166d7af27578
According to the CDS's:
That's a big difference in the number of sections offered.
Class section sizes:
In terms of subsections:
I guess it depends on what someone would consider "material."
And in terms of going forward, I more confidence in UMich in keeping their numbers consistent, because their endowment is larger than the entire UC system.
UMich will obviously be more expensive. But as I said, my kid has relatively easy access to her advisers for her STEM major and two minors and hasn't had a problem getting her classes.
And she'll likely graduate at least a semester early w/o having to take a full load at any time during her 3 1/2 years there. That'll save at least a semester's worth of tuition.
There's a lot of us (roughly 45% OOS and 3% International) throwing our money away at UMich.
We saw value, especially this year (sophomore) when my kid had multiple options of off campus housing at extremely reasonable lease rates, if you're willing to room with others. Her and her roommates had a local broker show them multiple properties for lease, though ultimately decided not to use this local broker or lease any of those properties.
And then there's the obvious attraction to UMich/B1G sports program (football, basketball, hockey) for us, evidenced by the football attendance numbers below:
According to ESPN:
Cal-Stanford 48,904
UMich/Ohio State 112,071 (on Thanksgiving weekend)
Michigan's class schedule at https://ro.umich.edu/sites/default/files/timesched/pdf/FA2020.pdf does not list class sizes, but the number of discussions attached to each lecture can give an idea of class sizes. For CS (as opposed to EE), large class sizes should be expected. The UCs may have larger class sizes, but the difference would be hundreds versus more hundreds, probably not that material a difference.
Most of whom do not have cheaper in-state options offering the brand/prestige/opportunities of UMich.
No so true for a CA resident who got in to Cal, UCLA, and UCSD for EECS/CompE
That’s clearly not accurate. Did you look at the UMich map:
https://admissions.umich.edu/apply/freshmen-applicants/student-profile
The largest amount of OOS students come from FL, CA, NY, IL, OH, CO, TX, etc. The better question is what states don’t have a cheaper option with similar prestige than UMich, which generally gives little aid to OOS students?
I wasn't accusing UMich of having gamed the system with respect to student-faculty ratio. I doubt if it does. That's usually something middle-upper-tier private universities would do related to the metrics of college rankings, so they can try to ascend them. It's evident that UMich, as well as UCB, UCLA, UCSD, don't care to engage in this.