I don't think the SAT is a good indicator of how well a student has learned throughout their time in school. Nor do I feel that an SAT score is a true indicator for how well a student will perform in college. SATs/ACTs are weeders. Public schools design State standards based curriculum to prepare their students to successfully pass their particular State exams. And there is no correlation between how well students perform on their state tests to how well students perform on the SAT. So how can we expect grades to correlate with SAT scores when they aren't supposed to? I have never been asked to design curriculum based on College Board Standards.
In my neck of the woods, it is very common to get an A in the AP class, but score a 1 or 2 on the actual exam. So yes, I definitely think there is grade inflation.
Public schools design State standards based curriculum to prepare their students to successfully pass their particular State exams. And there is no correlation between how well students perform on their state tests to how well students perform on the SAT.
Actually, there is a positive correlation between state test scores and SATs. Take NY for example; the following are Pearson Correlations values*:
Between NY State Regents Math exam scores and SAT Math scores: 0.76
Between NY State Regents English exam scores and SAT Critical Reading scores: 0.58
Meanwhile, their average SAT score fell from 1,026 to 1,002 on a 1,600-point scale — suggesting that those A's on report cards might be fool's gold." ..
this is what might be termed fake news.
The College Board says that less than a 30 point difference in test scores is meaningless.
In 2005 Wikipedia reports "certain types of questions were eliminated (the analogies from the verbal and quantitative comparisons from the math section). The test was made marginally harder, as a corrective to the rising number of perfect scores. " It changed again in tests first given in 2016, Wikipedia writing "On March 5, 2014, the College Board announced its plan to redesign the SAT in order to link the exam more closely to the work high school students encounter in the classroom"
So put a meaningless score difference together with a test that has changed twice so that it only loosely resembles the tests given in 1998 and what can you conclude? Nothing...
@shuttlebus "it is very common to get an A in the AP class, but score a 1 or 2 on the actual exam." Another thing I notice in the transcripts I review.
With 4 or 5 levels of each class (non college prep, college prep 1, college prep 2, honors. AP), there is likely room for A's for most of the class. A GPA is meaningless without understanding the specific classroom requirements.
Students now have additional layers of testing to complete. State/National for graduation, HS tests/midterms/finals, ACT/SAT (more than once of course due to super scoring), AP exams, SAT subject tests.
We wonder why youth are stressed... The endless test hours required could be spent learning, socializing or exercising. They may be incredible test takers in college, but skills directly applicable to a career like research and writing and their overall mental health are declining.
sunnyschoolRegistered UserPosts: 1,064Senior Member
Today at 4:52 pm @shuttlebus "it is very common to get an A in the AP class, but score a 1 or 2 on the actual exam." Another thing I notice in the transcripts I review.
Exactly why the AP Tests, and SAT/ACT are necessary.
I think that because there are a lot more A's floating around there at some schools, students feel additional pressure to go above and beyond to differentiate themselves with colleges, the high school and each other. D's public HS class had 4 valedictorians (unweighted, so all 4.0 GPAs) - yeah, it was a pretty big deal. Another HS in a nearby district - known to be extremely competitive - had at least 45 the same year (same thing, unweighted GPA). So, to gain an edge on all of those other perfect GPA kids who are applying to all of the top level schools you are, you're talking about loading up on AP's, taking SAT/ACT multiple times, cramming in EC's, etc., to the point where your resume is stuffed but you are beyond frazzled. And the expectations you and your parents and everyone else have are that you will wind up at an ivy. When that doesn't happen (because those are a crap shoot for most people) and you have to "settle" for a school like Cal, it's hugely disappointing. I feel sorry for kids like this who feel like failures. I'd rather a kid be less of an academic animal and wind up at a school they are thrilled to be at.
Some states are requiring that all students take either the ACT or the SAT (whichever organization the state contracts with) in place of state tests. This has the effect of lowering the overall scores, because students who would never have taken the ACT/SAT are forced to do so.
@foosondaughter Thank you for sharing. Did you notice in the abstract and conclusions of the study you shared, "We find that in the aggregate, Regents scores predict roughly as well as SAT scores but that high school grade-point average (HSGPA) based on only college-preparatory courses predicts substantially better than either set of tests. ".
We also need to keep in mind that the premise for modifying the SAT was to better reflect what students were learning in the classroom, specifically Commom Core...not to mention the equity issues. However, not all states follow Common Core. So were these states, like huge TX, excluded from the study? In addition, I found it interesting that the research cited in the OP article, was performed by the College Board. Why? Do these conclusions benefit the highly criticized College Board? Not to mention that the researchers used transcripts from 1996-2016, which makes me wonder how conclusions can be drawn using SAT scores from 1996-2015, as we know that the old SAT did not correlate with state education standards.
Someone mentioned kids making A's in AP classes, but getting 1's or 2's on the exam. Our oldest barely got a D in AP English but a 4 on the exam. My explanation, and would probably agree: he hated school but is an exceptional test taker. Tests certainly aren't good predictors for this kind of student. AP English exam score and course grade lined up pretty well for son 2, though.
Replies to: A's on the rise in U.S. report cards, but SATs flounder
Unfortunately, some high school students are more equal than others.
If these tests disappeared from the face of the earth, I wouldn't shed a tear.
- Between NY State Regents Math exam scores and SAT Math scores: 0.76
- Between NY State Regents English exam scores and SAT Critical Reading scores: 0.58
These are strong correlation values.*Data from Table 2, page 21 of:
https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/eap/files/cuny_fgpa_prediction_8.26.2014_wp.pdf
The College Board says that less than a 30 point difference in test scores is meaningless.
In 2005 Wikipedia reports "certain types of questions were eliminated (the analogies from the verbal and quantitative comparisons from the math section). The test was made marginally harder, as a corrective to the rising number of perfect scores. " It changed again in tests first given in 2016, Wikipedia writing "On March 5, 2014, the College Board announced its plan to redesign the SAT in order to link the exam more closely to the work high school students encounter in the classroom"
So put a meaningless score difference together with a test that has changed twice so that it only loosely resembles the tests given in 1998 and what can you conclude? Nothing...
Students now have additional layers of testing to complete. State/National for graduation, HS tests/midterms/finals, ACT/SAT (more than once of course due to super scoring), AP exams, SAT subject tests.
We wonder why youth are stressed... The endless test hours required could be spent learning, socializing or exercising. They may be incredible test takers in college, but skills directly applicable to a career like research and writing and their overall mental health are declining.
It's only because kids today spend 5 minutes on homework and another 55 minutes on the internet pretending to do homework.
@shuttlebus "it is very common to get an A in the AP class, but score a 1 or 2 on the actual exam." Another thing I notice in the transcripts I review.
Exactly why the AP Tests, and SAT/ACT are necessary.
Here's a few more articles to browse that support the lack of correlation between state exams and sat scores:
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2332858416670601
http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/view/111
There are alot more that discuss this issue, if I had more time I would research them for the thread.
We also need to keep in mind that the premise for modifying the SAT was to better reflect what students were learning in the classroom, specifically Commom Core...not to mention the equity issues. However, not all states follow Common Core. So were these states, like huge TX, excluded from the study? In addition, I found it interesting that the research cited in the OP article, was performed by the College Board. Why? Do these conclusions benefit the highly criticized College Board? Not to mention that the researchers used transcripts from 1996-2016, which makes me wonder how conclusions can be drawn using SAT scores from 1996-2015, as we know that the old SAT did not correlate with state education standards.