Money is fungible. The state provides 8.4 billion to the SuNYs -- the tuition raise was less than 200 million. To say the state "kept" the tuition increase is ludicrous -- one could just as easily say the state reduced its funding to "only" 8.2Billion. The state continues to lose money on SUNY -- it does not tax it. Not that I expect SUNY to make money, of course not. But to say, it "kept" the tuition increase is looking at less than 200 million -- not the 8.4 funding.
i have to point out -- i think you 8.4 billion figure may be wrong. from what i saw at the suny website you may have picked up the total budget figure NOT the state contribution. (i am not trying to be beligerent -- its just your number is not consistent with what i've seen).
when faced with the state BUDGET CUTS, suny took the very responsible step of raising tuition -- then AFTER suny voted to do so, the state chose to keep 90% of that increase. suny was trying to do something to help itself meet the state's budget cuts -- the state saw the tuition increase as a chance to grab even more money away from the sunys.
The Executive Budget recommends $8.4 billion All Funds ($2.8 billion
General Fund and $5.6 billion Other Funds) for the State University of
New York.
I am sorry that many people in SUNY administration do not realise its mission is to educate New Yorkers -- and that they are on their way to alienating what should be a constituency that advocates for them.
total suny budget amount does not equal what it is actually costing the state.
for example from suny website--
For every state dollar received, SUNY generates $8 in total spending in NYS. The 2008-09 all-funds budget of $10.703 billion, which includes $3.695 billion in state support , equals an estimated $29.6 billion total economic impact.
emphasis added
and that was before further BUDGET CUTS and TUITION INCREASE.
(from what i can tell the $10 billiion figure included the community colleges and the 3.60 billion included money for the suny hospitals)
I think "generates X in spending" is a pretty nebulous statement. Does this include spending by students for snacks. More specifity would be helpful -- but fortunately many people can see through this BS
i quoted this passage primarily for its reference to the amount of state support received in 08-09 as compared to the total budget - i've nothing more to add.
none of which negates the simple fact that if state budget cuts continue (including state retention of tuition increases) the sunys will be hard pressed to continue to offer the quality of education they have been.
you are free to believe the OOS issue is a more important issue.
personally, i believe these budget issues pose a far greater threat to suny.
i don't think either of us will convince the other.
others reading here are free to reach their own conclusions -- i don't really think people have to choose one or the other - they can judge each issue on their own merits and whether either or both warrant a letter to a legislator.
OOS admissions policy is a travesty and so is the retention of the tuition increase by the state. Ive said in a previous post that letters were already written by my parents.
I dont know if that will help but it certainy couldnt hurt to let NYS know that its residents are not happy with the current policy.
you two should stop debating. combine your knowledge and resources... and work together
unbelievablemRegistered UserPosts: 1,185Senior Member
i posted this on another suny forum, but thought i should repeat it here since the same issues are being addressed:
as a suny alum and a suny parent i have finally felt that i need to speak up after following this issue on several different suny forums.
first off, let me start by saying, i can understand there being a concern a to whether oos students pay enough compared to what other states charge. i don't really know how i feel about this -- i don't think a huge jump at once would be fair. nor do i think oos students already at sunys should be burdened with huge increases that threaten their ability to remain at their schools. but i can understand a concern as to whether suny charges enough to oos students (quite honestly, instate tuition is also so low, i can see that being an issue also -- though as others have noted in other threads, increasing tuition makes no sense unless the sunys actually get to keep that money!)
second, i can understand why suny applicants would be concerned if oos applicants were getting a significant boost in terms of getting in with far lower gpa and sat scores. but the truth is, i've seen absolutely no evidence of this -- even in the anecedotal postings of oos applicants who've already gotten in. there is always a range - if a given oos is a the low end of range, who can really say that somehow proves a trend for all oos. and every college will give a bit of a boost to applicants they want to attract. and given how few oos there are at sunys, they are an under represented group. but again, i've seen no evidence that this is any different this year than prior years, or that it is truly significant.
when i attended suny there were few oos. sunys also had virtually no reputation out of the state. i attended a national law school and interviewed for jobs through out the country. i always had to explain not only what a "suny" was but what remote corner of nys my suny was located in. i think things have changed a lot. many of the sunys have more national reputations. and quite honestly, having more (though still few) oos students definitely helps this. if you are worried about the value that a suny diploma will have, you simply cannot ignore national reputation -- it affects the marketability of the graduates. accepting some oos, even if they have slightly lower stats helps build that reputation and helps attract more oos applicants which eventually can cause the stats of admitted oos to rise.
and this is not something unique to sunys. when my child was looking at schools several years ago, we looked at several public colleges in other states. at every one of them we were made to feel that an oos applicant was welcomed and desired. special scholarships were available for oos students.
the economy is causing a vast change on the college scene. both privates and publics are facing financial challenges. and the sunys have become much more popular. just a few years ago, most kids at my local hs viewed the sunys as something to apply to as a safety or somewhere those without financial resources went. well these days, more and more students who used to think they were too good for sunys are now finding that mom and dad can't afford privates and the sunys are seeing a surge in applications.
what i find sad and the reason i felt compelled to post, is that i think this is resulting in almost a panic among some in staters. and i think oos applicants are being made into a scape goat for that concern. the truth is that if an in stater can't get into a suny that they might have gotten into last year, they should look around their hs at the huge number of others applying to that suny to understand why that is the case -- not focus on the handful of oos applicants.
as i said at the beginning, i understand that some of the issues raised about oos may be legitimate. unfortunately, whether people realize it or not, some of the posts regarding those issues have come across as almost hostile to oos applicants -- certainly as evidenced by the poster concerned as to whether oos students are welcome on campus. i think as a practical matter, oos applicants here on cc are probably now afraid to post their stats or admissions decisions.
i urge people to realize that oos applicants here are just like the in state applicants -- teens concerned about their future, looking for support and advise here. if you want to debate an issue -- please try to remember to do so in a manner that doesn't make these students feel unwelcome.
I can certainly appreciate that OOS are afraid to post their stats, and rub salt in the wounds of IS (althought they feel free to use profanity at me -- just the type of students NY should subsidize).
That being said, IS people do have the right to ask their elected officials to demand transparency and fariness. We are approaching a paradigm shift in paying for college, and SUNY must be fair. Its not.
Yes, thank you, that article was interesting, but it did not address the IS v. OOS issues -- although several of the readers posted comments with questions about that.
Replies to: SUNY Admissions Favor Out of State
when faced with the state BUDGET CUTS, suny took the very responsible step of raising tuition -- then AFTER suny voted to do so, the state chose to keep 90% of that increase. suny was trying to do something to help itself meet the state's budget cuts -- the state saw the tuition increase as a chance to grab even more money away from the sunys.
General Fund and $5.6 billion Other Funds) for the State University of
New York.
I am sorry that many people in SUNY administration do not realise its mission is to educate New Yorkers -- and that they are on their way to alienating what should be a constituency that advocates for them.
for example from suny website--
emphasis added
and that was before further BUDGET CUTS and TUITION INCREASE.
(from what i can tell the $10 billiion figure included the community colleges and the 3.60 billion included money for the suny hospitals)
1. NYS does provide signifcant funds to SUNYs.
2. OOS tuition is appreciably less than neighboring, high COLA, states (eg, NJ, CT, PA). Those states charge much for NYs to go there.
3. SUNYs will not disclose OOS SATs/GPAs.
you are free to believe the OOS issue is a more important issue.
personally, i believe these budget issues pose a far greater threat to suny.
i don't think either of us will convince the other.
others reading here are free to reach their own conclusions -- i don't really think people have to choose one or the other - they can judge each issue on their own merits and whether either or both warrant a letter to a legislator.
OOS admissions policy is a travesty and so is the retention of the tuition increase by the state. Ive said in a previous post that letters were already written by my parents.
I dont know if that will help but it certainy couldnt hurt to let NYS know that its residents are not happy with the current policy.
you two should stop debating. combine your knowledge and resources... and work together
as a suny alum and a suny parent i have finally felt that i need to speak up after following this issue on several different suny forums.
first off, let me start by saying, i can understand there being a concern a to whether oos students pay enough compared to what other states charge. i don't really know how i feel about this -- i don't think a huge jump at once would be fair. nor do i think oos students already at sunys should be burdened with huge increases that threaten their ability to remain at their schools. but i can understand a concern as to whether suny charges enough to oos students (quite honestly, instate tuition is also so low, i can see that being an issue also -- though as others have noted in other threads, increasing tuition makes no sense unless the sunys actually get to keep that money!)
second, i can understand why suny applicants would be concerned if oos applicants were getting a significant boost in terms of getting in with far lower gpa and sat scores. but the truth is, i've seen absolutely no evidence of this -- even in the anecedotal postings of oos applicants who've already gotten in. there is always a range - if a given oos is a the low end of range, who can really say that somehow proves a trend for all oos. and every college will give a bit of a boost to applicants they want to attract. and given how few oos there are at sunys, they are an under represented group. but again, i've seen no evidence that this is any different this year than prior years, or that it is truly significant.
when i attended suny there were few oos. sunys also had virtually no reputation out of the state. i attended a national law school and interviewed for jobs through out the country. i always had to explain not only what a "suny" was but what remote corner of nys my suny was located in. i think things have changed a lot. many of the sunys have more national reputations. and quite honestly, having more (though still few) oos students definitely helps this. if you are worried about the value that a suny diploma will have, you simply cannot ignore national reputation -- it affects the marketability of the graduates. accepting some oos, even if they have slightly lower stats helps build that reputation and helps attract more oos applicants which eventually can cause the stats of admitted oos to rise.
and this is not something unique to sunys. when my child was looking at schools several years ago, we looked at several public colleges in other states. at every one of them we were made to feel that an oos applicant was welcomed and desired. special scholarships were available for oos students.
the economy is causing a vast change on the college scene. both privates and publics are facing financial challenges. and the sunys have become much more popular. just a few years ago, most kids at my local hs viewed the sunys as something to apply to as a safety or somewhere those without financial resources went. well these days, more and more students who used to think they were too good for sunys are now finding that mom and dad can't afford privates and the sunys are seeing a surge in applications.
what i find sad and the reason i felt compelled to post, is that i think this is resulting in almost a panic among some in staters. and i think oos applicants are being made into a scape goat for that concern. the truth is that if an in stater can't get into a suny that they might have gotten into last year, they should look around their hs at the huge number of others applying to that suny to understand why that is the case -- not focus on the handful of oos applicants.
as i said at the beginning, i understand that some of the issues raised about oos may be legitimate. unfortunately, whether people realize it or not, some of the posts regarding those issues have come across as almost hostile to oos applicants -- certainly as evidenced by the poster concerned as to whether oos students are welcome on campus. i think as a practical matter, oos applicants here on cc are probably now afraid to post their stats or admissions decisions.
i urge people to realize that oos applicants here are just like the in state applicants -- teens concerned about their future, looking for support and advise here. if you want to debate an issue -- please try to remember to do so in a manner that doesn't make these students feel unwelcome.
That being said, IS people do have the right to ask their elected officials to demand transparency and fariness. We are approaching a paradigm shift in paying for college, and SUNY must be fair. Its not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/nyregion/02suny.html?_r=1&hp