@theloniusmonk nah. Most kids with a lot of AP/dual enrollment credit are at state schools where they can use it. My kid is eyeing aeveral state schools where she will enter as a junior or near junior and “not have to take an English class ever again.”
@theloniusmonk I also think that. since many of these AP courses are taken during senior year and the tests are given well after college decisions are made, kids make rational decisions not to take tests that will mean little or nothing in terms of college admissions or credits. If there is no high school policy that incentivizes the AP test and little or no likelihood of translating the test scores into placement and/or credit at college, the AP course alone has served its purpose. I know my own daughter took six AP tests at the end of her senior year…and, in retrospect, thought it was a waste of time, energy, and money despite getting mostly 5s on them. I know my recommendation would be to choose your tests wisely and only take those that are relevant. For instance, if your college only takes APLang OR APLit, and you’ve already got credit for the one they take, why take the other? (Unless you really like taking tests or your high school has consequences for not testing.)
Agree with EllieMom!
Some schools require that if you take the AP class, you must take the exam. (This was the case for one of my sons, but not the other – they attended different high schools.) I once proctored an AP WH exam where a student opened the booklet, laid her head upon it, and took a three hour nap. Asked her if she was ok, and she said she was fine, but didn’t want to take the test. I made sure the AP coordinator knew about it in case there were any issues later.
By the time senior year AP exams rolled around, our kids knew where they would be going to college and how many APs that school would accept. S2 had signed up for AP exams, but he knew by May that he knew he didn’t need two of them. Decided to focus on the exams where AP credit would be most useful in satisfying general distribution requirements. He was so burned out by that point that I didn’t care about the forfeited fees. OTOH, if he had decided to attend the flagship, those two courses would have gotten him credit there. He said he would have taken them in that case.
It doesn’t matter if you phrase it as taking AP exams or taking AP courses. Only a minuscule portion of students take this many AP courses. For example, the HERI survey is given to 140k college first time college freshman with weighting reflect the national pool of college freshman. It only includes students who attend college as first time freshman, which biases the AP count higher than the full HS population. The survey includes the question, “How many Advanced Placement/International Baccalaureate courses did you take in high school?” Note that they ask about “courses”, not “exams.” In the most recent survey, only ~2% of college students indicated they took 12+ AP courses.
If you look at freshman surveys at highly selective academic colleges in the US, the average number of AP classes is substantially higher than the national average. However, at Harvard, MIT, Harvey Mudd, flagships, and every other selective colleges I am aware of that asks such a question on their freshman survey, only a very small minority of students say they took 12+ AP courses (“courses”, not “exams”). It may be relatively common among persons who spend a lot of time posting on forums about getting admitted to highly selective colleges, but it’s by no mean common among the full population.
“The College Board needs to say a similar thing about taking A.P. courses. We have data that taking up to five A.P. courses over the course of high school helps students complete college on time. But there is no evidence that excessively cramming your schedule with A.P. classes advances you. Let us say to students, ‘If you would like to take more than 5 A.P. courses because you love the class, do so, but not to get into college.’
Stanford U says:
“We expect applicants to pursue a reasonably challenging curriculum, choosing courses from among the most demanding courses available at your school. We ask you to exercise good judgment and to consult with your counselor, teachers and parents as you construct a curriculum that is right for you. Our hope is that your curriculum will inspire you to develop your intellectual passions, not suffer from unnecessary stress. The students who thrive at Stanford are those who are genuinely excited about learning, not necessarily those who take every single AP or IB, Honors or Accelerated class just because it has that designation.”
I don’t see how this will be possible given that many schools limit the amount of APs in 9th grade and 10th grade.
My kid wound up with 10.5 (11.5 since he took 2 additional AP tests on his own), but with a strict 0 APs-9th, 1 APs-10th and 4 APs-11th limitation where my kid went to HS, the max anyone can do is 10.5, and as such most kids, even the very top students, wind up doing around 8 to 9. It was pretty crazy for my kid to take 5.5 APs as a senior along with CC classes, but he did it in part to “make up” for a not-so-stellar GPA at the end of 11th (3.73 uw).
As well they should. Some (including the CB) seem to forget that AP classes are in theory equivalent to 1st year college courses. Aside from a variety of offerings in the arts and foreign languages, up until the late 80’s / early 90’s before the CB flooded the market with AP lite courses, the offerings were pretty limited to typical first year college courses - Bio, Chem, Calc (AB and BC), Physics (B & C), one English course, USH, European History, and that’s it. My guess is that in those days they were mainly seniors, and some highly motivated juniors who took these courses. While there is undeniably the exceptional freshman taking calc, does anyone truly believe that all 25 9th graders in Mrs. Smith’s AP Human Geography course are at the level of college freshman?
“As well they should. Some (including the CB) seem to forget that AP classes are in theory equivalent to 1st year college courses”
I have mostly heard/read that AP courses are equal to one semester of college work, yet are taught over an entire year in high school. It would seem feasible to me that a intelligent, well raised 9th grader could preform as well a a typical college freshman given that time difference. I also think that is why a intelligent, well raised senior can take 6/7 APs and preform very well (Its only 3-3.5 college classes per semester)
The AP test grade distributions and trends would suggest otherwise. In many tests, 25%-33%+ of students score 1 or 2, which is failing. https://www.totalregistration.net/AP-Exam-Registration-Service/AP-Exam-Score-Distributions.php?year=2018
The mean of all tests in 2018 was below 3 (2.89). https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/research/2018/2018-Score-Distribution-All-Subjects.pdf
9th grade students have the lowest mean score. Interestingly sophs have the best, but really all years are close in terms of the mean, and they are all below 3. https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/research/2018/2018-Score-Dist-by-Grade-Level.pdf
These scores are not a rousing success for students (or their teachers/schools), but certainly are a large revenue generator for CollegeBoard—look at the volume increase in AP tests over the last decade! https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/research/2018/2018-Exam-Volume-Change.pdf
Just another data point:
At our HS, 4 max AP classes junior and senior year. Most high achieving soph take AP World, and that’s it. Theoretically Stats, Calc, Spanish and Human Geo are available to soph. I would say less than 5 kids a year take advantage of the opportunity to take a second AP class as a soph. I have never heard of any soph taking 3.
Perhaps the better question is which students have the aptitude to take APs (how many and when). All students should have to score extremely well on 1-2 APS 4-5 before being allowed to take 3 or more the following year. Interesting that schools that have this kind of system have average scores above 4 and a much more select group that has taken 16 plus APs.
12 APs is possible. Anecdotally, D19 graduated with 8 APs because we let her opt of taking any AP foreign language classes. Her high school doesn’t limit AP enrollment except for freshman so kids can and do double up on sciences and foreign language thus leading to 12+ APs in some cases.
The exceptions are AP Calc BC and AP Physics C, in its original unbastardized form. These two classes are taught at the same rate as a college class(es) and both cover 1 year of material.
AP Chem, APUSH, Euro, most colleges give 2 semesters of credit.
I like the idea of required scores on previous APs to move up to more.
APHUG has dismal scores this year. Kids who can’t pass APHUG shouldn’t be moving up to 2 or 3 APs as sophomores.
@VickiSoCal I am sure that would complicate scheduling quite a bit, considering AP grades only come out later in the summer!
My kid gets her final schedule 3 days before school starts.
DS19’s school is semestered. AP courses are not taught over an entire year they are taught over 5 months for 1st semester and 4 months for 2nd semester (because the exams are in May and our school year goes to June). At his school these courses are taught at an actual university level. You can not take them until you have completed the full high school curriculum for that subject. The courses are offered as part of a cohorted program that accelerates the regular high school curriculum so that they complete 4 years in 3 and then take the AP’s as grade 12 credit.
Wish we had that type of program! Sounds great. How many APs do talented kids complete 20-22?