<p>I know my 20 something daughter has a strong work ethic and desire to succeed. I do agree with sax. Most companies seem to chase short term profits. They often cut corners on the quality of products and services and they also seem to have minimal regard for their employees. When it comes to employee loyality and company loyality towards the employees, most companies talk a good story but consistently fail to deliver. It is not just the young employees who need to look out for themselves. In fact older employees seem to be treated with even less regard. I know in my case, I and other older employees saw minimal raises for many years even before the recent downturn. We could be underpaid because it was assumed that we would stay anyway and were too old and complacent to move on. That is why I moved on and in fact retired early. Working was no longer worth the hazzle without better compensation. The attitude of us older employees who got screwed will help mold the work ethic and attitude of the younger generations.</p>
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<p>This cannot be emphasized enough. In the personal computer world Compaq and Dell are two brands that went from being known for building high quality PCs and standing behind their product in the past to becoming known more for cutting corners/support on their products…especially the consumer end. </p>
<p>In the case of Compaq…it was a factor in their effective demise as they are now part of HP. In Dell’s case, they changed all their consumer warranties down to 1 year as opposed to the 3 year standard they had in the '90s and had a rash of failing PCs in the '00s due to the use of defective capacitors, failure to provide adequate servicing, and even a possible attempted coverups of the real issues until a big lawsuit from institutions such as UT-Austin and coverage from the NYT revealed the gravity of the problems. </p>
<p>Sony had a serious issue with selling defective batteries due to abysmal QA which failed to uncover metal shavings embedded with the battery which caused notebooks/portable electronics to short-circuit, catch fire, and even explode. This affected many notebook brands and portable electronic devices.</p>
<p>Just had a chance to post a reply to the OP’s original comments. I think having parents contact employers is ridiculous, except in cases of serious illness or emergency of the employee son or daughter.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I have to admit to some puzzlement about the “evening event in the city,” which the employee’s father did not want her to attend. I think this is hard to assess without more information. What kind of event? What city? What part of the city? When did the event end? What kind of transportation options were available? </p>
<p>On CC, I have seen many participants who think that having a college interview in the interviewer’s home is totally off limits, and that people need to meet in a coffee shop or other public place, because you never know what kind of dangerous predator/alum might be interviewing for HYP. I think I’m as helicopter-ish as anyone, but I went to interviews in people’s homes, and would not have given it a second thought if my daughter had been invited to a home interview.</p>
<p>But, for those who think it would be hazardous for a high-school senior to go to an interview for HYP in the interviewer’s home, how do you assess the hazard 4 years later for a young woman–who would presumably be alone, except during the event itself–attending an evening “event”? I would view this as hazardous in some places.</p>
<p>Also, re: the young woman who cried about a 30% raise.</p>
<p>On the one hand, the only time in my life that I’ve had a 30% “raise” was in the transition from post-doc to Assistant Professor.</p>
<p>On the other hand, this story too begs for more information. Was the young woman in some kind of training program with very low pay? Did she anticipate moving to a more “normal” salary at the end of it? How did she get a 30% raise to begin with? Those have to be exceedingly rare in these times. How did her income post-raise compare with the salaries that her friends in her field were making? Was she really crying about the 30% raise in itself, or had she just realized that even after the raise, she couldn’t afford rent+car+food+student loan payment on her own?</p>
<p>I think i was pretty clueless in my early 20s on the job. I remember being transfixed with horror when it sunk in that I would only have 2 weeks of vacation per year for what looked to be the rest of my life.</p>
<p>My first real job was with a big tech company and there were a lot of us who were young in my area. I remember quite a few co-workers who were just still kids at heart and having trouble taking it seriously. It was a stronger job market back then, though. I think maybe we are judging these young kids today a bit more harshly because jobs are at such a premium.</p>
<p>My older one is working and to be honest I sometimes wish he wasn’t. I’d rather he go “cook” awhile longer in a grad program somewhere. He seems way to young to be out there in the work world yet. He’ll have his whole life to spend working. </p>
<p>I guess it’s pretty obvious I don’t have the biggest work ethic myself.</p>
<p>We teach our kids to find their “passion” and then ding them for not wanting to succumb to the routine 9-5 (8-7 more likely nowadays). They step into an office where the management takes 17 times as long to complete some routine (to the kids) computer stuff and then ding them for wanting to leave when their work is done. We teach them to find their “bliss” and then ding them for not being at their station whether there’s technically work to be done or not. We ding them for not noticing their pants aren’t ironed properly. (Maybe tell them?) People love to ding others. How about (as some young posters here have pointed out) teach them? Mentor them? Train them? Set clear expectations? My DS worked in an office where the management was crazy disorganized. He is a very neat and organized young person so was able to accomplish loads of work in a short time compared to his higher ups. Nope they did not appreciate that at all; it was “be at your desk no matter what” instead of “get the work done.” Some of these kids are just not up with the B$ factor. Hmm I sort of remember a few hippy types in that boat oh say hrmm a short generation ago. I guess we all learn to put up with the B$ once we have kids and mortgages. I suppose this sounds entitled, or enabling of entitled attitude…wanting work to be life affirming…like listening to the joyful song on a sudden loud record scratch. /sigh</p>
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<p>MY LIFE. </p>
<p>I type over 100 wpm. At least I used to, it might be slightly lower than that now. I have ranted about this on the ranting thread before, but it’s so frustrating. I have to beg for work because what they think will last me all week will only last me a day. If I’m procrastinating.</p>
<p>Well, I have never met any of S’s or D’s employers, so wouldn’t even know whom to call if something came up. 
I was shocked that S was able to get 2 summer jobs in a row that allowed him to take vacation in the middle of it (that was how he chose which summer position to accept). Summer after sophomore year, he worked in a lab & the supervising prof said it was fine for him to take off the month of July & go to Taiwan. The summer after JR year, NASA said it was fine for him to take 3 weeks off in the middle of the summer, as long as he worked 12 weeks for them. He negotiated and made it work.</p>
<p>So far, both kids have done just fine finding their own jobs, which is a good thing as I don’t have a clue how to help them find anything! </p>
<p>I do have a slight preference for older employees (in their 40s & 50s), as they tend not to have as many crises come up–childcare, illnesses, “forgot,” or something better came up.</p>
<p>I am the old lady at my job. All 5 of the other account managers in my office are in their 20’s … and they work extremely hard without whining, complaining, or “expecting.” My D is in her early 20’s and has a phenomenal work ethic. My 20 year old S hates working … but works hard at his fast food job, just the same.</p>
<p>I have heard about the parents who involve themselves in their kids’ jobs. I haven’t experienced it myself, though.</p>
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<p>Oh jeez, no kidding. I accomplish one tenth or less of what I am capable of for precisely this reason. And if I extend myself fully and get my projects done as quickly and efficiently as possible, I am subjected to extra scrutinty because obviously I must be cutting corners, and annoyance because that means somebody has to find me another project. You can’t be self-directed in my particular job without the appropriate training, because mistakes mean million dollar lawsuits, and after a year I still haven’t gotten any of that appropriate training. In fact, all of my sessions have been canceled, because we don’t have time with all the giant three month long projects that only take me a week. I don’t complain because I am glad to be here no matter what, but it is frustrating.</p>
<p>In my case, I’ve figured out that they don’t REALLY want me to be as productive as possible, they just want me to do what they want me to do and stay out of the way and out of trouble otherwise. I didn’t know that at first. The corporate world was not what I thought it would be and I am still figuring out precisely in which manner my attitude needs to be adjusted.</p>
<p>Ema, I could have written that almost word for word. Except that I work for the state and it’s the same deal. I’m not allowed to do anything not directly given to me because I don’t have a master’s degree. Those are the rules. -.-</p>
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<p>We could sure use you in the medical field! There is no such thing as “being finished early” because you work so much faster than others. Little to no down time (I’ve worked 12 hour shifts where I literally didn’t get a bathroom break, but since I didn’t get a lunch break or even a water break, probably didn’t need to go to the bathroom anyway), so much responsibility that you have nightmares about accidentally killing someone, and you will never be expected to sit at your desk (at my facility, nurses don’t have chairs, so there is no sitting at all except at lunch). We need young people like you because people my age are getting too darned exhausted to keep this up much longer. </p>
<p>I work with a lot of young people. They put in just as many hours as we do, they are working just as fast and furious, and have a tremendous amount of responsibility as our “clients” are vulnerable and depending on a professional attitude and high standards of behavior. There is no such thing as showing up late, leaving early, asking for (or receiving) excess vacation time (we have personal time off, no sick hours, no vacation-if you are sick, you just took a vacation day), or any chance in hell of being accused of playing on your phone or computer. These “kids” are well deserving of my respect, I can tell you that.</p>
<p>^^^ these are fascinating - and I wonder if they reflect a generational difference between young people for whom computer work is a natural part of life and their older managers who are behind them in skills and understanding.</p>
<p>^ They absolutely do.</p>
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<p>Possibly…though this is a YMMV and IMHO…dependent more on how interested they are in learning more about new technologies or anything else that comes out. </p>
<p>Just walked an 86 year old woman the other day in helping her complete a driver installation over the phone. She’s also quickly picked up how to use the web to order groceries, skype with relatives, use Office apps, itunes, and more. </p>
<p>Conversely, knew an older HS classmate back when we were undergrads in the mid-late '90s who looked positively terrified when he fearfully ranted about how computers are taking over the world/his office at some sportsmedia internship. Very odd considering we both attended a STEM-centered public magnet full of computer nerds and we had to use computers for some of our science classes.</p>
<p>My dad owns & uses his iPhone, iPad and laptops & enjoys DAY TRADING! He leaves his younger colleagues in the dust! He is looking forward to having his 90th birthday in the near future. Mom on the other hand lets her iPad gather dust, with her Kindle. She’s mostly fearful of techology.</p>
<p>Once, as a 20-something I had a boss who simply couldn’t keep up with me. I’d finish a project, realize he was in a meeting, and have nothing to do. It drove me crazy until the point where one day I just left, wandered around for hours, and came back to find that no one on my team had realized I was gone! We were scattered around a big space and I think this wouldn’t happen so easily today with computers, IMing and the like. I could have caught my boss before his ever-present meetings.</p>
<p>There are different kinds of productivity and those of us who are more active do-ers can get easily frustrated with the ponderers and the people who spend hours on the phone or in meetings. They’re getting something done too, just more slowly and usually more subtly.</p>
<p>My two 20-something kids both have good but different work ethics. My D (26) has two jobs. For one, she shows up on time, leaves on time, gets her job done, as best as she can–and could care less about the job the rest of the time. The other? Well, she’s starting her own business. Works hard and long at that one. </p>
<p>My S (25) has only one job. His own business. Started it three years ago and, as far as I can tell, works pretty much all the time when he’s not sleeping. He employs seven people now.</p>
<p>Both my kids work much harder than I do.</p>
<p>I told my 20-something (now 24) during his internship that it is not his boss’ duty to keep him busy. If he has finished an assigned task, he is to figure out how he can be most productive on his company’s behalf until he gets the next assigned task, such as self-training in a programming area where he might be a little weak. </p>
<p>I will say, not being busy has not been a common problem since he started working full-time. It is not uncommon for him to work into the early hours of the morning, week-ends, and holidays, similar perhaps to Oldfort’s D’s hours. He works in engineering consulting, overseas.</p>
<p>Regarding Quant’s Qs in #43-44, the city in question is DC. It’s really not a scary place, Metro is great and company events are almost all in Northwest. It’s the land of the intern and many of us spent time here. </p>
<p>The 30 pct raise was for someone in a high tech/consulting/defense related name brand so not likely to be peanuts starting pay. The one who took dad along works for a PR/lobbying firm and works for a gentleman who wouldn’t put anyone in harm’s way. </p>
<p>I will admit DH said he might hover at a nearby Starbucks or restaurant, but wouldn’t have gone anywhere near the client.</p>
<p>Maybe this helps. Let me also say that I’d rather have my own kid working with me because of her speed and work ethic. But I really want her to work for others first.</p>