<p>The reason I brought up using a private counselor was because I think this young man could use the kind of one on one attention that he might have gotten from a HS guidance counselor. Most private counselors I know of work mostly with a very different type of student than this young man. Perhaps the better term to use would be ‘college navigator,’ someone to help him navigate the complexities a very unfamiliar system. Not sure if such services exist or how costly they would be.</p>
<p>However, it sounds like by enrolling in a CC, he would have access to at least some level of counseling to help him figure out how to get to the next step. CC is starting to look like a very viable option for him to consider. Another topic for us to research further…</p>
<p>Even if his dad is unwilling and/or unable to help with college expenses, it certainly doesn’t sound as if he is likely to be earning so much that it would be a problem for his son – the key thing is that he has to fill out the FAFSA. Getting his agreement (and follow-through) to do that soon could make the difference between getting Pell and Arizona grants this fall or not. </p>
<p>One FAFSA question: If the student in question is not living with the only living parent, how many are in the parent’s household? Does the dad just report that he, alone, is in the household?</p>
<p>Pardon my FAFSA ignorance, but if this young man can declare himself an independent, would his dad still need to complete the FAFSA? I know there are a lot of threads on this and related issues on the Fin Aid forums, just haven’t gotten through those yet.</p>
<p>From everything I know, it is VERY difficult for a child under the age of 24 to simply “declare” himself independent. In <em>extreme</em> cases, such as the sole parent is in jail, in a mental institute, or has disappeared on the streets/homeless for decades, etc, MAYBE. In cases where there has been a divorce and the sole parent is cranky and uncommunicative - that just isn’t enough. </p>
<p>Think about it - if a student can just prove the parent/s are cranky/disinterested/moved on and simply “don’t wanna” fill out the form, I promise you, there would be a meteoric rise of students under the age of 24 that would go through the process of claiming “independence” because it is extremely advantageous in the FAFSA process to have that status. If the process was as easy as “my dad remarried and is a jerk (or simply financially stretched and stressed out and emotionally distant”) – well, that would likely cover 10s of thousands of students. FAFSA - a GOVERNMENT program (just like taxes!) really doesn’t care about that drama.</p>
<p>The problem is that FAFSA is also the gateway for many private scholarships, etc. So it is critical that the father cooperate.</p>
<p>The young man can try to become independent - but I think the situation is NOT dire enough for FAFSA. 1) the son can locate the parent with minimal effort (the parent is on the grid and not hiding out in some south american country) 2) the divorce was only a handful of years ago 3) it is NOT that unreasonable to get the father to fill out the form - the form doesn’t obligate the parent to <em>anything</em> and takes all of 30 to 60 minutes to fill out.</p>
<p>The best bet is for the young man to get on speaking terms with his father and get the father up to date about what is needed for FAFSA and ask the father to fill it out at a specified time. Unburn some bridges if necessary. Otherwise his options are to pay cash for college.</p>
<p>Your student may feel what some others feel who have done 2-3 years in the military before going to college. That whole first semester can seem “out of step.” There are 17 year olds in the dorm who are homesick for their goldfish – and 18 year olds drinking themselves blotto. </p>
<p>Go ahead and talk to the young man about this – and tell him that there will be plenty of 20 year old first timers – he will just have to look to find them. </p>
<p>Dad of student might be able to help in another way – you might check out those rules on declaring independence. What if Dad is willing to do a letter stating that he has not supported student since 20XX and has no intention of doing so from here. There may need to be a stop at an attorney’s office or the courthouse (or both) to get some sort of official documentation. </p>
<p>I went to FAFSA.gov and did the worksheet to determine dependency. There’s this question:</p>
<p>Are you, or were you an emancipated minor as determined by a court in your state of legal residence at the time you received the determination (question 54)?</p>
<p>By checking “yes” I got this evaluation:</p>
<p>The results of the Dependency Status Worksheet indicate Independent.
Based on this result, you are not required to provide parental information or a parent’s signature on your FAFSA.</p>
<p>So, you can check what it takes to be a “emancipated minor” in your state. An attorney’s help for a few hundred dollars might mean thousands in financial aid.
Good luck.</p>
<p>Olymom: the student in question is 20 years old. It seems impossible for him to go back <em>retroactively</em> to declare himself as an “emancipated minor”. He was <em>not</em> emancipated when he was a minor as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>Also, the other idea of a kid just getting a parent to sign a paper via a lawyer that says “I’m cranky and selfish and divorced (or whatever excuse)” and THAT means the parent doesn’t have to fill out a FAFSA… I’d be shocked if that works.</p>
<p>I’d be advising both brothers to go meet with the Dad and not leave until he fills out the daggone Fafsa form. And don’t ask him if he “wants” to meet with them; tell him he has to meet with them.</p>
<p>Everyone here is assuming that Dad is in the country legally. If he is an illegal immigrant (very common in Phoenix) he probably will not be interested in filling out a FAFSA form.</p>
<p>Clearly the dad needs to complete the FAFSA. That discussion will likely require some finesse. And no, the father is not undocumented, just very uninvolved.</p>
<p>I agree with bigtrees. Having the student enroll in some classes at the local community college is a great first step. That will get the student in the college environment and get him started towards his degree.</p>
<p>I think it is great what you are doing, psi. I am a first gen college student with disinterested parents and could have certainly used the guidance from someone who knew the ropes. I started out at a community college and am now at Berkeley. (I’m not saying that to brag, but rather to say that it’s very possible to transfer to good schools.)</p>
<p>The financial aid situation is a tricky one, but it should not be a make or break situation. If the student enrolls in an inexpensive local college and starts taking classes he will gain access to a wealth of resources (transfer and financial aid counseling) that will make his transition to college much easier. A first gen college student will probably not know much about the college landscape in America. They may not know the difference between merit and need-based aid, the difference between a LAC and big state school and so on. By asking the student to enroll in a local college, he can at least make progress towards a degree while he figures out his situation. It is also a less intimidating way to go than to aim straight for an elite 4-year school. </p>
<p>Encourage him to get the best grades possible and in a year or two he’ll be a very competitive transfer applicant for many great schools!</p>
<p>Also, I would never discourage someone from getting the best education possible, but it seems like this student may have been doing some pretty astute cost/benefit analysis for someone in his situation when he was considering a 2-year degree.</p>
<p>I am going to stick with my suggestion that the OP and student see an attorney and determine what the state law is about being an “emancipated minor” – if this student is or WAS, then it can make the whole FAFSA picture completely different. Dad would be out of the picture. The dollars recorded would be the student’s only. </p>
<p>The details are extremely important here. The student might come out wayyy ahead if Dad can be ruled out of the picture (which he seems to be functionally if not legally).</p>
<p>Thanks Olymom, usdenick and bigtrees, you have given good advice and good avenues to pursue for further info. I am traveling this week and hope to get some research done on financial aid and community college options. I’ll post back here when we figure out what needs to be done with the FAFSA. Cheers to all-</p>
<p>For the FAFSA, you likely will only need the father’s tax statement for 2009 (and will continue to need that each year.) The less the father makes, the more the student will qualify for aid.</p>
<p>However, it would be ideal if the student is able to be declared independent. (Unless the student already went through a serious legal process to become an emanciaped minor–and he would know if he initiated that, it doesn’t happen by itself–which means he is no longer legally associated with either parent, this will not be the case now that he is not a minor.) This is something to be discussed with the school financial aid office too. He should carefully document dates and times he lived with his mother and the contact that has had with the father and he might be considered for extenuating circumstance (see item #10.) It doesn’t seem like the father will have declared him a dependent since the divorce, and that may help the case.
[FAFSA</a> Dependency](<a href=“http://www.fafsa.com/forms/ajax/fafsa/fafsa-dependency.aspx]FAFSA”>http://www.fafsa.com/forms/ajax/fafsa/fafsa-dependency.aspx)</p>
<p>If he has not applied to ASU for fall, he should do that now, to leave the option open, if deadlines haven’t passed. The financial aid papers can be filed separately, if deadlines haven’t passed. Be aware that some schools will take application fee waiver requests.</p>
<p>Be aware that the less means you have, the more financial aid is available and this is true for private schools too. My daughter was one such case where a private was less that the big state flagship school.</p>
<p>He won’t qualify as independent, as nice as that would be. The link that BrownParent provided above even addressess that:</p>
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<h1>10 is if he was unaccmompanied youth homeless youth. He is no longer a youth and wasn’t unaccompanied as a youth since he was living with his Mom through high school. I think his situation he will still qualify as dependent.</h1>
<p>The unfortunate thing is that his Dad could, if his Dad wanted to, provide for his education. Since his Dad is able to, the Department of Education wants to see his financial information to see what is Dad means are to pay. A parents unwillingness to pay isn’t part of the FAFSA determination for need based financial aid.</p>
<p>You know I am starting to really see the weirdness of the FAFSA dependency rules. A male is a “man” and has to register for selective service at age 18. At age 18, he can vote, marry, obtain professional licenses (with appropriate training/testing) and buy a firearm. But he can’t legally have a beer or get financial aid by himself. . . . </p>
<p>Consider his financial resources are limited, and the priority deadline for merit scholarships is Dec. 1st for ASU, I would recommend that he apply to see what offers may come, but plan to enroll at a community college near where he lives for at least the next year, if not two. Speaking as an ASU student, if he’s not planning to live on campus, and if he’ll be taking standard general education classes for a year or two without much of an idea of what academic direction he would like to take, he’ll only be wasting money on larger classes that are otherwise equivalent to smaller CC classes. Perhaps in two years he’ll have some more specific plans. You really haven’t given us any information about his academic preparation, but if you want to plant an idea in his head, I’d recommend the business school. An ASU student graduating with a business degree (especially in areas like Supply Chain Economics and Accounting) with a decent GPA and internship experience will have strong job prospects. Given his lack of financial support, I would think establishing himself financially as soon as possible will be key, so focus on the pre-professional programs.</p>