So what would that BA’s (English/History etc) route be to remain competitive in MT? Say you come out of high school on par with bfa candidates, but decide you want a broader education and pursue a liberal arts’ BA. I can understand those majors helping with acting but keeping up with voice and dance seems difficult.
As affirmed so many times on this forum, there are many paths to a career in acting/MT. Some get the broader degree in undergrad and then go on to grad school to narrow the focus. Some never go on to grad school. But, one possible way is to continue training privately in voice and possibly in dance. I am wondering about a minor in voice and:or dance. Is that something offered? I know early on in this process, D’s voice teacher told her she could cobble her own program together and get the training needed. Using that scenario she would have to seek out performance opportunities on her own, squeeze them in. It’s not ready-made but I think it’s do-able and I believe having a liberal arts background would provide a solid foundation for a career in the arts. Anyone out there have experience with “building” a program?
CCM’s program came out of the MUSIC conservatory - which had been around in one form or another since the 1800s and had been a stand-alone entity for most of that time. Someone decided they should teach a different style of singing - rather than classical - to meet the needs of a different style of performance. Several other MT programs grew out of once-free-standing music conservatories (Shenandoah is one) - hence the subsequent “conservatory style” programs. Other programs, like Wright State for instance, are part of the theater program (Theater, Motion Pictures and Dance is separate from the Music Department and has been around since the 70s). Most of the programs pinned at the top of this forum have been around for some time. But since we started this path with S four years ago, it seems like at least 20 new programs have arisen.
In regards to speculation about WHY MT programs are proliferating, here’s a discussion from a few years ago about the “Glee Factor”: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1651140-is-the-glee-factor-still-a-factor-p1.html
So while it seems that many programs have popped up very recently, I imagine it takes years for a new college program to get up and running. I think the forces behind this “new” phenomenon have been decades in the making. As you can see in the discussion, it’s inter-generational.
Great question @MTTwinsinCA ! Musical Theatre as a genre has evolved so much in recent years as well. A Chorus Line (and Pippin, but especially ACL) are examples of older shows that have cast recordings of the originals and the revivals. Every time I listen to the old cast, all I can think is that those singers would never be cast in today’s shows. The demands of today’s shows are so very different than they were then!
I would imagine that the more MT programs get developed in colleges, the more students who thought of their “hobby” as ending after high school can imagine themselves a career.
For example, if you were a star in high school plays ten/fifteen years ago but your parents wanted you to go to college, you more or less moved on. Only those who had always dreamed of bway went onto the big MT schools. Now, “If you build it they will come.” There is a great program in every state. Sometimes more. This access leads kids to serious training at a younger age which makes them more competent, thus increasing the competition. They have outlets for their talents they didn’t have before.
@mtmarmom I truly believe you learn by doing. (It’s the teacher in me). Performing on stage or in film is key. You can get tons of training but practicing your craft is key. Get a degree in English, or business or math but audition and get your butt on stage 
My D auditioned in 2002, so 14 years ago. The number of people auditioning at the schools that were on her eclectic list were high then as well. For some schools, that hasn’t changed much.
I agree, @alwaysamom that the number of people auditioning at the schools my D had on her college list in 2005 probably hasn’t changed much. It was high then and still is. The difference now, it seems, there are more programs out there and more kids vying overall for this sort of degree. The programs my D auditioned for have been around for a long time.
As far as someone who is in a BA degree program in a major like English…they might minor in theater. They might take private voice lessons. They may take some dance classes.They may participate in an active extracurricular theater program at their college, as well as extracurricular dance and a cappella groups. They may have a lot of experience and just are very talented.
D ended up at NYU with a BM in vocal performance (concentration in MT), but her second choice was to attend Barnard as an English major/ music or theatre minor. To do that, she would have hoped to get voice lessons offered by Columbia, but since they are only generally available to upper classman, we would have had to pay for private voice lessons and could have used her same NYU voice professor (@$150/hour.) We also would have been paying for additional dance classes. D knows of several successful students at Barnard who went that route. Since D did not qualify for financial aid at Barnard, it would have cost much more than NYU, but for others since Barnard meets full need, it could actually save some money.
Not an MT example, but here in LA, lots of college kids (not just theatre students) take class at the Groundlings to learn improv. Everyone wants to audition up into the main company with the goal of being discovered for TV series or for a sketch show like SNL. Some of them have BFAs and some of them didn’t finish high school. Some are math majors. Some are creative writing majors. Some work in a bank. But likewise in the acting and MT world, if you already come in with some talent, being well-read, world-wise, up on current events, smart and creative and able to “think on your feet” is a great advantage.
I echo sentiment above about staying active with acting, voice and dance training either via extracurricular activities or outside studios if one were to go the academic BA route.
I agree with alwaysamom and soozievt. My oldest S auditioned back in 2006, & my younger S auditioned 2 years ago. I don’t see that huge of a difference between then and now–if we’re talking about the ‘higher’ level places. I do see a difference in proliferation in programs overall, demand for coaching, increased perceived need for coaching, & overall people auditioning. Not sure if that’s all a good or bad thing. I don’t think there are more openings for equity level MT jobs. There do seem to be a lot more musicals that feature younger actors right now, though, so I’m thinking that helps get your foot in the door.
It’s probably like running in NYC. When they added the rule that if you ran nine races you could get in the marathon, all of the sudden there were 9000 people in even the tiniest, lowest-key races. But roughly the same number of sub-five-minute milers. The truly outsized talents have nothing to worry about…the ones on the bubble maybe do.
One positive difference between 2010/11 and now is the amount of TV/Film and Netflix/Amazon work available! There’s a lot of work out there if you think about it. Obviously that work is not necessarily in the musical theatre realm, but worth pursuing. Many recent grads are finding steady work in those four categories, so that’s hopeful if one is willing to branch out.
I really don’t see how anyone who is not involved in the current year or in recent years could possibly know what the levels of competition are for these programs. The original poster is correct in the observations. We know from the colleges themselves that there are more applicants for MT programs, record numbers according to the program representatives. Michigan has had an increase of 20% each year since 2013. And newer programs, like Rider and Pace (2000 total department applicants) have had large record numbers of applicants. As far as I know, that was not the case 5-10 years ago. Correct me here, but were there 1500-2000 applicants for many boutique or even well known programs? So the level of competition has certainly grown and the level of expectation on the part of the reps had risen. This makes things extremely more competitive for girls especially as their numbers are disproportionately more competitive and as each years talent is coached and well prepared. So if you had a daughter 10 years ago, she was not up against the amount of competition then that she is now. And the talent now is more competitive with a more developed skill set. Each year it changes, and the way things used to be back in the day, are not the way they current are. We can wish for that, though! Unless you are a parent of child going though it now, you cannot know the climate of competition. The OP got it right, imho.
I agree with the OP’s observations.
And there are more applicants now than 10 yeas ago for MT. But there are also more programs. Schools like Rider and Pace have definitely increased in number of applicants in these last 10 years!
But that is not necessarily true for some well established programs. I believe, for example, that the high number of applicants to NYU/Tisch and to CMU have remained high all along. The acceptance rates are similar today.
One doesn’t have to have a child in the current “race” to ascertain such information. In my own case, I have been advising applicants to college for the past 13 years as my job.
As well, the graduates I know of the competitive MT programs that are doing well in the professional world from the past 10 years or so since they graduated, are testament to their competitiveness and developed skill sets and I believe these successful graduates would be admitted to BFA in MT programs today if they were to audition again. I knew many of these young professionals in their youth and they were hugely talented then. There were less MT programs and no national audition coaches. Back when my kid applied to BFA in MT programs, her MT friends from around the country, a really talented group of kids, I must say, were all applying to the same 8 to 10 MT programs. Today, my MT advisees’ college lists differ a great deal from one another.
Is there an increased number of applicants, or is each student applying to a larger number of programs than, say, a decade ago? I wonder if it’s a bit of both?
I read somewhere with the debut of the show GLEE that more people became aware of music and theatre as an option in college. I think @cornycollins18 you are right, it’s a little bit of both. I do think the process is very different than it was 10 years ago.
There are more MT applicants entering this process than before, plus many more MT college programs, plus students each applying to a larger number of schools. However, it was also highly competitive 10 years ago when there were much fewer MT programs available. The acceptance rates at most BFA in MT programs have been in the single digits (often low single digits) for a long while.
We can only realistically sustain more MT BFA graduates in the real world if there are more job opportunities also increasing. And I’m not sure that it is, and if it is, it’s not increasing as much. If there are twice as many people graduating in 2016 with a BFA in Musical Theatre but there aren’t twice as many roles and shows then that will problematic for the professional field outlook for future graduates.
While Glee and High School Musical are great tools to get people involved and interested in studying theatre, what we need to do is get normal normal people interested in attending theatre. The only way other cities like Saint Paul, Cleavland, Denver, and other cities of that caliaber could open up new professional theatres or companies, to handle the increase of people in the profession, would be if there was enough active interest in the city to go see shows.
Now this could be for a variety of reasons, the cost of going to see a professional musical on Saturday night is way higher than seeing a new movie. Some people just havnt experienced the arts enough to appreciate it. I’ve met so many people who’ve told me they never really took theatre that seriously but they saw whatever professional show and now they think it’s so amazing. We are trying to help the people who are unaware. Educational outreach programs are trying harder to get younger kids and teenagers appreciative and interested in going to see theatre.