<p>kathiep, congratulations on all of the acceptances! </p>
<p>I had those concerns too. My feelings are that a B+ student can be challenged at any university. If they have spare time they can always max out their credits per semester, take more challenging classes, and become more active on campus or search for an internship/helping on a research project and so forth. I think if one ends up in a school that is too overwhelming it can really end up becoming catastrophic. Some students rise to the occasion and swim (which is the incredible upside), but I think that many sink (no I don’t have statistics other than graduation rates, but this is my feeling through obersvation), or change majors to the point that it could be life altering. Our personal family decison was to have our children choose a school where they were at least well within a match situation. My younger son was admitted to a reach school that we all liked. At the end of the day I did not want for him to attend that school, just like I did not want him to attend a known “party school”. My son picked a safety. I have had concerns about him not being challenged and I am sure that he thinks I am crazy. Even though he seems to have plenty of time for campus activities, he says that he studies a lot (much more than I seem to be aware of from a distance)!</p>
<p>Good points NEmom. From son’s choices it seems that the ones that suit him most program-wise are also the ones that have the best job outcome (because of their co-op programs) but are also going to be the hardest and most expensive. I surely wish that our school offered a true week long Spring break so we could visit a few schools at one shot without taking time off school. With Robotics tournaments starting this week, son is already going to miss three or four days for that.</p>
<p>^^ I really understand all of that. I see it as a bigger risk, because it will be harder for him to succeed at a reach school. I guess you will all have to decide if it is worth the risk and perhaps have a plan B, just in case. </p>
<p>I think that my son’s job prospects would be better from the reach school if only for the “better connections” through its alumni. I feel he would have been much worse off than where he is now if he had taken that choice and ended up with lousy grades and a diploma, or no diploma at all. I really do not believe that he would have had top grades there. I believe he would have struggled to pull off a C/B average there (just a guess on my part), and he may have wanted to transfer out.</p>
<p>Kathiep, congratulations! I think NE’s advice is very sound.
You are so right about schools needing to offer a longer break for this crucial decision. I think an actual class day is often more revealing than a carefully packaged accepted students day. If necessary, I would skip HS to do it</p>
<p>“We” are struggling with planning visits as well. “We” is in quotes, because it’s really “I” who am struggling. His friends don’t seem to be doing much visiting or pondering. Son says “just don’t do it during spring break!” I guess that should tell me something.</p>
<p>I can only imagine how he would respond to the idea of sitting in classes! </p>
<p>And to complicate things, “poor shrinkrap’s son” already has too many choices, and probably a few more to come in the next two weeks.</p>
<p>"And to complicate things, “poor shrinkrap’s son” already has too many choices, and probably a few more to come in the next two weeks. "
laughter, I love this. I think D may be eliminating colleges for trivial reasons just to get the list down too. Nothing in her (very obscure) sport near campus- out? Going to take longer to drive to once a week sport outings (90 minutes instead 45 minutes) dropped down on the list. And D pretty much does not want to talk about choices. Has never been to the college at the top of the list but would be just as happy if we sent in the check now to be done. (Not going happen!!!)</p>
<p>Thanks for starting this conversation. I am in much the same boat. Cost/value? Big/small fish? Size? Location? </p>
<p>We crafted her list very carefully, and I think very well, to give options. But now the time is coming where she will have to decide just what IS the most important combination for her.</p>
<p>Recently we visited a school where she far exceeds the average academic stats, and where there is little “prestige” compared even to a lot of the publics on her list, BUT the arts program she wants would fit her excellently AND there’s an absolutely wonderful honors college that we’re both thrilled with. So in many ways it could give her the best of all worlds … except for the prestige factor, which as much as I’d like to throw it out the window I do wonder in the long run if it would matter to her. </p>
<p>She has a few reach schools, and I guess we’ll know if she’s actually accepted to them if either she or we have a feeling of excitement or dread. She’s right on the line of a kid who could really rise to the standards around her, or flail about miserably, at a reach school, and one who could get very frustrated by peers who don’t meet her level at a lower school. Yikes. </p>
<p>Well, as she says, she’ll decide when she has the answers. H and I talked the other night about whether we would refuse to let her go to any school, if lately we’ve had a feeling she “shouldn’t” go anywhere for any reason … I don’t think we’d do that. What we want the most is for her to choose her own path and try. Right now I think we’d be OK with whatever outcome. Seeing her have the strength to switch gears and transfer would even be better than seeing her pick something she thinks WE want.</p>
<p>But that’s just me … and me today. I might feel differently tomorrow. </p>
<p>What’s relevant for the 3.X student is that we have seen them “below the top” and have seen them swing both ways, have seen the confidence go up and down, haven’t always seen just what they’re capable of. It’s a particular quirk for them which has made the college selection process so complicated, at least for me.</p>
<p>We crafted the list, as you described above. I did not want to close any doors because during senior year lots can happen. </p>
<p>I also worried about prestige, but my son did not care last year, and he does not care now. As far as having peers “meet his level”, well, when I visited I met so many bright students. I knew at that point this was probably not going to be a concern. I knew that my son was not within the tippy top range when comparing stats anyway. He falls probably within the top 20%. I think that is ideal for him.</p>
<p>Do you mean he is within the top 20% of students at the college he attends? That means he has quite a number of academic and intellectual peers.</p>
<p>What I’m describing, and maybe what worries a number of other people, is where your child enters the school already with stats very much higher than virtually everyone there - for example, at one school my D visited (an academic but not artistic safety) the person we talked to thought we’d told her an ACT score literally 10 points lower - like she’d hardly ever heard of someone having one in my D’s range.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t quibble over being in the top 20% vs. the top 50% of students. But it’s a bit of a concern when many, many students will have a GPA from HS below a 3.0 and quite low test scores. </p>
<p>This has been an issue for us partly because of having to find safeties - although really her academic safeties are lovely schools that I have no problem with - but more because of arts programs in schools whose stats are significantly lower.</p>
<p>I don’t really sweat “prestige” - I’m not looking for some sort of gold-star diploma. It’s just a little tough when the college doesn’t even make any of the rankings lists, regardless of how fond of it we are. A lot of that is because the rankings are meaningless … but when they have several hundred schools listed, I guess it’s only natural to hope that your child’s favorite would be noted somewhere for some reason.</p>
<p>I think that he is in the top 20% of the school. I did not really dwell on whether he is within the top 20% attending or accepted (I am not too sure). My kid is also not equal in his abilities (many students are not). I think that he is probably within the top 10% in a certain area, and maybe more within the middle of the pack in another area. I know that when my son shared his ACT scores with a few students they thought that would lead to a full tuition scholarship. That was not the case, but they were impressed by his scores. Not all students know the abilities of their peers. I will say that I have seen lots of talent on this campus, and talent of all types (the arts, athletics, leadership, book smarts, etc.), and I was there for a very short time so this was just a snapshot picture.</p>
<p>Thanks, NEmom. I’m not trying to be picky, or to prove anything. I’m just trying to be honest about my concerns about “intellectual fit” - I don’t think there’s any right or wrong answer. But I’ve been hanging out on these threads long enough to know that this is a complex, often inexplicable issue that faces a lot of people. The top kids have only peer/below peer choices. These kids have a broader spectrum to choose from. </p>
<p>I guess I’m just musing on what my D might feel when she has the array of acceptances before her. So far she has 2 matches and a safety, plus a couple of academic acceptances to safety-level schools pending reach-level artistic acceptance. Really anything can happen. Maybe she’s more broad-minded than I am; she certainly doesn’t judge “by number,” although I’d like to think I don’t, either. Yet she also can be very frustrated by people who don’t “get” her intense and usually quirky way of thinking. So a bland and conventional atmosphere could be very difficult for her.</p>
<p>Hopefully we’ve made good choices in the long run, and she’ll certainly make a thoughtful choice when the time comes. With a few schools I think she’ll be able to choose in a blink of an eye, so maybe it’ll be even easier than I’m imagining.</p>
<p>I’ve pretty much been a lurker on this thread taking from all the great input … and it’s time I gave back a little. This post is directed mostly to those with juniors or younger and those with seniors still waiting for good news.</p>
<p>I have 3 kids and SecondToGo is the one Mom3ToGo and I were most concerned about for college … he’s smart but not overly motivated or engaged with his schoolwork … took challenging but not the most challenging courses … started HS getting all Bs and as he went through school typically threw a couple As into the mix … so he’s comportably in the 3.0-3.3 UW GPA range.</p>
<p>For me the big learning came from our school visits. With my oldest we had visited a bunch of the highly selective schools on the East Coast … with SecondToGo we went to some of these schools and a ton who are not at the top of the USN rankings … and we went to school after school and I kept being surprised by how much I liked the schools. The facilities were fine, the academic offerings were excellent (often with more options than schools like classic LACs), nice campuses, and very-very enthusiastic students … schools where I can easily see solid student being very happy … and for some/many maybe happier than being a highly selective school (getting to be a relatively big fish at the “lesser” school) … and at most of these schools the top 1/4 to 1/3 of students are very good students and will make an excellent academic cohort group for SecondToGo. Overall, I came out of the our visits convinced SecondToGo would end up with fine options for school.</p>
<p>Then we came to application time … SecondToGo applied to 11 schools … including 3 highly selective schools form which he has not heard yet … he has 3 acceptances from the remaining 8 schools including 2 from school on his short list … so with month to go half his list has been eliminated and he knows he going to a school in which he is very interested. From a parent’s perspective it’s also encouraging that 2 of his 3 acceptences have coming with merit offers including at one of his short list schools.</p>
<p>The punch line for me from his process was there are a ton of great schools where a solid student can thrive … many-many more than the USN mania leads one to believe … and better yet these solid schools are looking for solid students … our solid kids will typically do just fine.</p>
<p>geeps … I would be happy to … but which schools … applications or the bigger pool of schools we visited?</p>
<p>NEM - My son brought up the bigger fish idea in a very self-aware fashion … “I know I’m pretty smart and I think I could do the work at school X (one of his reaches) however I’m not sure I’d be comfortable talking a lot in class or taking the lead with all the smart kids there … I think I’d be more likely to step up in a room where I’m one of the smarter kids” … and when he said it it rung very true to me. To be honest at this point if I were picking (Tiger Dad) my short list of schools would be 3 schools which would include one highly selective school (a small LAC so hopefully that would draw him out) and the other two are schools not nearly as selective but that seemed great matches for him … and depending on the day I’d pick a different of these 3 schools … for him the big fish in a smaller pond scemario is very compelling to me.</p>
<p>3togo, My son has expressed the same feelings but I’ve also known him to grow into and conquer situations that he thought were too hard for him. We’re looking at very techy, fairly large colleges and small liberal arts colleges. One of the LAC’s sent a really nice letter saying that students in his intended major can work on campus, get internships and all of the 2010 grads found employment in their field. BUT, the curriculum is not nearly as computer oriented as the techy places. He’s said all along that the program was more important to him then any prestige factor and that’s not the draw of the higher ranked colleges. The draw is their co-op opportunities. Co-op’s are great for a few things - they give one experience, they can help narrow down likes and dislikes in a job or a field, and they pay well. We know too many of my older kids friends that are un-employed or under employed and my son is keenly aware of that.</p>
<p>I’m so glad that so many of you are going through the same sort of discussions with your kids and that we can talk it over here. Nothing to do but talk while we wait for more decisions and fin-aid packages, right?</p>
<p>Just to throw some names out- D has pretty much discarded her safeties (LeMoyne, Elmira, and Manhattanville). The last has been just wonderful to her giving her very nice merit and it is in great location with a very nice program. This was the school I was deliberating over considering and going to their Trustee Scholar reception/accepted student day up thread. We ended up saying no because we were concerned the stats were so very much lower (whether we need to be or not) and that she would be bored. As I said elsewhere, we were looking for matches but could not find easily what would be a match for her (very weird and) grade deflated program. So now her matches are Siena (she has pretty much discarded because of lack of intellectual rigor- and the bland and conventional vibe to quote EmmyBet- even though she got in), UAlbany (at the top of the list and she is accepted), SUNY NP (could not tell if this was a reach-probably- or a match but she is in). Still waiting on Hampshire where she would definitely be at middle or lower part of the heap and RPI (where she does not have a prayer of getting in IMHO). She says she is reluctant to go to Hampshire because she does not think her h.s. program prepared her adequately for a rigorous program.<br>
Our D has decided now that she does not want to be at the top of the heap where she goes. She is leaning towards being cheap, going to a SUNY where she can get her MSIS in 5 years, and just getting through to get on with her life (her ideas not mine). That is the reasoning right now, significant merit/FA could change it all up (but we don’t think this is likely).</p>