<p>taxguy:</p>
<p>If your HS is on 5.0 scale, would the regular 3.50 translate in to a 4.5 ( B+) for comparison purposes?</p>
<p>Mevik, it’s hard to say because it depends on how many courses were honors or AP. However, I think that 4.5 would be too high for weighted especially since some courses can’t be taken as honors such as drama, gym, etc.</p>
<p>Assumming that most of the courses are honors or AP, the unweighted 3.5 might translate to a weighted 4.1 or 4.2 or so.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your suggestions.</p>
<p>dogs:
You really think that Tufts is that easy to get into? I felt that it is getting increasingly tougher to get into.</p>
<p>REPLY:
Yes, TUFTS is difficult to get into. Our S was accepted at Tufts with a 4.6 ish w-gpa and 1420 sat, this was in 2004. ECs, job, decent. It was luck of the draw since kids with higher stats didn’t get in yet he was turned down at some schools where his stats were at their higher end. So it really is somewhat arbitrary in that if your child is in the range and a “qualified applicant” for any college they have as good a chance as any other student without a hook such as legacy, URM, special talent, etc. I honestly think many schools are looking for a well rounded class and his “type” was needed there that year. BTW, he turned down Tufts at the last minute to attend BU Honors Program with a half tution merit scholarship. I say keep your options open, you have many great suggetions, all terrific schools, its all about “fit”, and make sure you have a few “sure bets” where your child can be happy.</p>
<p>dogs:</p>
<p>I see your point. That brings me to my eternal question - How many schools should one apply to?</p>
<p>I know the conventional wisdom says that safeties should not be safeties, they should be viable safeties. There is no way for an applicant to know what the make up of the class will be and if he/she will be considered a “fit” to round out the class. So how many applications are too many?</p>
<p>Your list of LACs is loaded with schools that may be reaches for a student with a 3.5 GPA. Applying to a couple of these would be OK - but would be a good idea to find some safties and matches that your daughter can love. What about trying something in the midwest? We found that most of the really good LACs in the east don’t offer merit aide – but many of the good LACs in the midwest are generous with merit aid – Denison on your list would be one of these. Grinnell, Kalamazoo are others. Kenyon and Oberlin might be reaches - and they’re not so generous with merit money - but Oberlin in particular is every bit as fine a college as Haverford - and not quite as difficult to get in. A tour in upstate NY might be good – take in Hamilton, Colgate and Rochester (she’d automatically qualify for $10K at Rochester base on SAT scores).</p>
<p>Ironically many of the uber-elite schools who don’t give merit based aid have, by far, the largest endowments. Many do meet 100% of need based aid, but they could well afford to start throwing a few bones to the underepresented middle class. That having been said your daughter is a very bright young lady. What I don’t see, and maybe she has one you failed to mention, is a leadership position That seems to be harped on these days. For instance a team sports captain, editor of the HS newspapers, president of the student council, something along those lines. Sometimes an overiding passion in a particular area will make the “leadership” tag irrelevent, but most times not. Many of the schools you mentioned want the whole package and they get it. Be careful about “clubs”. Often times these don’t get it done where EC’s are concerned. Some clubs mean an hour or two a week and in that regard the members thereof are termed “joiners”. Joiners are looked upon as lightweights in the EC department. A HS varsity sport or two is often very key at some schools. As regards your first list- Drop Cornell, they and other schools in that strata, routinely reject 50% of the validictorians who apply. If you’re not in the top 10% of your class, stick a fork in yourself… you’re done. NYU, BC, and Georgetown are very popular schools owed to their metropolitan locations They get flooded with aps. Although your D might get into one of these schools you can forget about merit money unless she has a “hook” ie., under represented minority, NMS etc… U Michigan and U Chicago, great schools, but it means out of state tuition $$$. Of the first 17 on your first list, from what I’ve learned, U Rochester, GWU, and American are probably your best bets for merit aid. As regards the second list I know, Havorford, Vasser, and Wesleyen do not give merit money. Lafayette gives it out sparingly, but you’d be in competition with National Merit Scholars (NMS) to get it. Show your list to your daughter’s GC and tell the GC you NEED merit money. The GC will be able to tell you right off the top of her head what colleges don’t give merit based aid. Some GC’s have lists of those schools that give ONLY NEED based aid. Your daughter is to bright to waste her time applying to schools who will not help her. Do all you can to get her into an honors program at a state school, preferably in your home state, if the priority becomes cutting costs. Merit money is hardly out of the question but, as previously stated, target schools in which your D falls in the top 25% of the applicant pool AND insure the school’s admit rate exceeds 40%. These schools may be looking for kids like your D to help them on the selectivity index. Once again get her in the honors program wherever she is accepted. We read about so many bright kids on this site with great EC’s and scores. I’m sure some of these kids come from affluent families for whom money is not the overiding issue as it is for many of us. Like it or not, unless you’ve got a rich aunt, a family making between 80-160k is going to be hard pressed to do HPY the baby Ivies, or any places with a 40k price tag. Earning 80-160k is probably not enough to garner you much need based aid, yet it is also not enough to shell out 45K a year for school, especially with siblings in the picture. Shorten your list to schools known for good merit aid then add others with similiar reputations. Here’s a few suggestions Catholic Unniversity in DC. Bently outside of Boston, Clark in Worcester, MA… Find a hook. Many engineering schools heavily laden with males throw merit money at females with good stats to balance the student body and engineering is not the only subject offered. John Hopkins, known for health sciences, welcomes students of the humanities with open arms… again to round out the student body. Smith is a good option, but add Mount Holyoke. Often times these prestigious, single sex, institutions chase high end applicants and the education is as good as any out there. Mount Holyoke has a gorgeous campus and is part of a consortium which includes several close by coed unniversities, a mere five minute (and free) bus ride away. Although the school is not coed most of the social scene is. Don’t get down on yourself if your daughter has to “settle” she’ll be fine regadless. Good luck.</p>
<p>mcvik–Did you pick the schools on your list based on daughter’s interest in working with disabled kids? Did you look to see if any of the schools offer certification in special education or occupational therapy? Those fields are in high demand but she’ll need a master’s to do OT, and it will not matter one iota whether she went to a prestige school or not–she’ll get paid the same as somebody with a degree from a teacher’s college.</p>
<p>“So how many applications are too many?”</p>
<p>My son applied to six. But, he was also eligible for financial aid - he I think that if he had only been looking at merit aid, 8-10 would have been a safer number. Assuming a range of competitiveness, geographic diversity (if ok with your family). If your D can complete (but not necessarilly submit) some of the applications / essays during the summer it will be easier this fall.</p>
<p>Nightingale-
“Drop Cornell, they and other schools in that strata, routinely reject 50% of the validictorians who apply. If you’re not in the top 10% of your class, stick a fork in yourself… you’re done.”</p>
<p>LOL. Not always true (there are always expections), certainly correct in a statistical sort of sense. Things were a lot less tense around our house when the really gradesy schools went off the list.</p>
<p>taxguy:</p>
<p>That Naviance site is, as they say (or said), the shizzle. Really interesting. How many years of applications data are included? (My guess is 5 or 6, but I really can’t tell.) What is the range of weighted GPAs for the top 10% and 20% of kids at Wootton? (At my kids’ school, with fewer AP classes and a somewhat different weighting system, a 4.5 would make someone the valedictorian most years, but your school seems to produce a fair number of kids with 4.6+ GPAs.</p>
<p>Several posters mentioned Georgwetown and merit money.Doesn’t happen.They only give need based.As for Hopkins they give out a very tiny amount of merit money and I sort of doubt that a kid in the top 20% of a graduating class is likely to see it.Lafayette give out 2 merit scholarships and I think they use SAT scores as the criteria.Based on your daughters SAT’s I think she might qualify for the 16k a year award.Of course that still leaves 30k a year to cover.</p>
<p>Private schools are too expensive.</p>
<p>JHS a weighted 4.0 GPA won’t even get you into the top 25%. In fact, a 4.0 weighted GPA only gets you into the top third!</p>
<p>Wootton doesn’t rank kids,but they sadly do post banded rankings. Thus, to make it into the top 10%, a student needs a weighted 4.5 or more.
I think a 4.25 or better put you in the top 25%. </p>
<p>Also Wootton does not suffer from grade inflation. This are just very hard working, top kids.</p>
<p>In terms of applications data: they use about four years of data: 2003-2006. Sadly, they don’t show which year belongs to which dots. Wootton, however, is taking this up with Naviance to correct this problem.</p>
<p>Thanks for your posts. Nightingale, thank you very much for your comprehensive analysis. My D’s HS has the Naviance site for her school. All the current data has not been posted. I feel that acceptances from 2 years ago are extremely out of date. I might just take the 2400 SAT data ( we know that is current) to get any guidance from those scattergrams.</p>
<p>My school does not rank but several girls not in the top 10% (top 10%= 5 girls) at my school were accepted to Ivies this year so what Nightingale said is not always the case.</p>
<p>Might want to look at Emerson College, my friend who wants to work with autistic children is looking to go there because they offer majors to do with working with those with special needs etc. It should be a safety, not sure if they give merit aid or anything</p>
<p>On the other hand, I do think a school that does not rank <em>can</em> give certain kids outside the top 10% an advantage, in that if the college really wants them they don’t have to worry about those students pulling down the school’s ranking in the %top 10% category - one of the weighted categories in USNews and other rankings. My guess is that that remains an advantage for schools like Wooton (and our HS) that provide banded ranges on the profile but do not rank. On the flip side, it also allows such schools to avoid the grade inflation that exists in other places.</p>
<p>The theory is that schools that do not rank are very competitive and there is little difference between those at the top segment of a class. At least that’s the rationale most high schools currently give for not ranking, since more and more high schools are now jumping on the no ranking bandwagon. The HS can only get away with the practice of not ranking if they are a known quantitiy to the admissions offices, or they could pay the price at decision time. Of course, there are some very competitive schools that do rank, as well.</p>
<p>But once again, as the varying results here do show, a discussion of GPA is practically meaningless unless you have a point of reference on the high school.</p>
<p>Why not try Dickinson in PA? They gave my son $15,000 a year in merit aid for his SAT which was 1510 (old system) in 2004. Also, Vanderbilt is very generous with merit aid and you should be very pleased with their educational program in Peabody College. They are the #4 best graduate program in graduate education. Also check Lehigh which gives nice merit scholarships, $10,000 and $15,000 a year. My daughter got $10,000 a year with a score of 2000 on the SAT. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>If your HS is on 5.0 scale, would the regular 3.50 translate in to a 4.5 ( B+) for comparison purposes?>></p>
<p>Keep in mind that many colleges use their own system for recomputing GPAs for all applicants, so in many cases it will not matter what scale is used by your high school. Some schools recompute all transcripts using an unweighted 4.0 scale, some drop “non-core academic” grades like music, art, gym, some have other ways of recomputing and their own ways of how they weight the courses taken. They will, however, take into account the type of school attended (private prep school? Suburban public? Urban low income public?), as well as class rank (and many schools that don’t rank do provide information to colleges that pretty much indicates where a student stands), in order to put the student’s performance and grades into context. And, they will also look closely at how the high school curriculum compares with other candidates. </p>
<p>Therefore, no one can really evaluate an individual candidates chances at a specific school just on grades and test scores alone, without knowing how and if that school re-computes GPAs, how they evaluate the courses taken, and what is included in the recomputed GPA, and what they seek in the high school curriculum. This is one of the reasons why many of the “what are my chances” threads here are pretty useless.</p>
<p>Incidentally, many schools that use the “reported” GPA (i.e., the one on the transcript) for admissions, recompute the GPA for merit scholarship purposes, usually on a 4.0 scale, but again there are many variations.</p>
<p>And, of course, at many schools merit money is NOT automatic just because you have a certain GPA or a certain test score – other factors come into play, including the school’s need/desire for particular student characteristics. So, for example, a school that has trouble recruiting top male students may be more generous with merit awards for them than it is for female students with similar stats. Therefore, just because one student received merit at a particular school, another with similar stats may not or may receive a smaller merit award. Many schools also use “preferential packaging” in terms of their financial aid awards – highly desirable students may get less loans/work study and more grants than students lower down the pecking order even if their EFC is exactly the same.</p>
<p>It is VERY important to understand the market dynamics that go into admissions, financial aid and awarding merit money before drawing up a college list, and to ask the right questions when you visit or contact individual schools. At the very least, ask EVERY school on your list if they recompute the GPA, and, if so, how.</p>