<p>Sorry, but that is no more relevant whatsoever. In what way does (or should) the fact that a bunch of Democrats were as mistaken and stupid as Bush (though at different times and at vastly different levels) have any relevance to what we all think about the war? Personally, I think it was stupid, whether it was started and supported by Democrats, Republicans or anyone else. I doubt there’s anyone here who really only dislikes the war because the Democrats do, but maybe there are. Really though, I think you’re just posting stuff that’s pretty irrelevant.</p>
<p>Clean up the mess in Iraq? My point was who will clean up the mess here at home?
And since as a babyboomer i was flipping burgers three decades ago to pay for college your damn straight my income has more than quadrupled! (actually a tenfold increase)</p>
<p>If we lie about it, we set up their brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, for the same fate.</p>
<p>But I do think it is unfair to “imply” it - we should state it as baldly and loudly as we can: “Their children died because of the malfeasance, ineptitude, greed, and corruption of their elders.”</p>
<p>Regardless of whether the “going in” was justified - or not - according to the provisions of resolution;
Regardless of whether "staying in " jibes with the objectives of the initial action;
Regardless of the past, present, or future of the State of Iraq;
Regardless of all other considerations, Iraq is the preferred battlefield for drawing out & engaging al qaida. Much more difficult to do that in Afghanistan (but hey, we’re keeping the heat on over there too!). If it were that easy, we’d have caught/killed Bin Laden by now!</p>
<p>Does everyone here agree that we must fight al qaida, a terrorist group who has DECLARED WAR on the U.S. and even ATTACKED US on OUR SHORES?</p>
<p>Would you rather we were fighting them HERE? They’ve already demonstrated that they WILL attack us given the opportunity - should we not keep them engaged ELSEWHERE??</p>
<p>Where do YOU think we should be fighting them? NYC?? D.C.??</p>
<p>Yes, get on your knees and thank God for our military fighting men and women, for every insurgent they kill in Iraq is one more terrorist who can’t come here and blow something up!</p>
<p>Yes, keep fighting OVER THERE - we don’t want al qaida here! Keep 'em busy in IRAQ! That’s why we haven’t had any attacks here since 9/11. While you’re on your knees, give thanks for that too - say what you want about Bush, but you must concede he has kept us safe!</p>
<p>Anyone who sticks his head in the sand will probably FIND his head in the sand! No joke! </p>
<p>Think of Daniel Pearl who was an innocent reporter and shown NO MERCY.
Think of all the wonderful lives that were crushed and incinerated on 9/11!
Think of ALL the innocent victims of these horrible muslim extremists!</p>
<p>Do you think if we leave Iraq that al qaida will just go away??</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we MUST fight. We MUST defeat al qaida. That is not an option. We’re IN this war -NOT by our choosing - what is YOUR plan for winning it?</p>
<p>Let’s draw them out in Iraq & end this thing as decidedly and swftly as possible! </p>
<p>bz2010, I don’t know whether you’ve realized it, but most of your posts sound like John McCain advertisements.</p>
<p>Anyways:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, except al Qaeda in Iraq is not the same group of people as al Qaeda in the rest of the world. As I point out whenever anyone brings up the “let’s fight them over there so we don’t have to here!”, it’s not like terrorists are somehow being stuck in Iraq by all the fighting - no, largely the terrorists that are now fighting America in Iraq were created by America’s invasion and ongoing presence there. Of course you can say “look we’re fighting them there, that’s better isn’t it?” but that ignores the fundamental fact that what is present in Iraq reflects not a global movement but a huge number of home-grown Iraqi insurgents who continue to be created, as it were.</p>
<p>As for Afghanistan, maybe we would’ve caught bin Laden by now if Afghanistan had been focused on like it should’ve been - even now, there are 10 times as many troops in Iraq, when Afghanistan is the far worthier place in a number of ways. And keeping the heat on is a bit of a misnomer, since Canadian troops in Afghanistan do much more fighting for their deployment size, and suffer a much higher casualty rate than American soldiers.</p>
<p>1of42 - Never mentioned McCain once in my last post! (Maybe it’s just true what they say about “great minds thinking alike”! Maybe we’re both right!). :)</p>
<p>Not sure that I agree that al Qaida in Iraq doesn’t include terrorists from outside Iraq - see below:</p>
<p>“ignores the fundamental fact that what is present in Iraq reflects not a global movement but a huge number of home-grown Iraqi insurgents who continue to be created, as it were.”</p>
<p>This is very false. Al Qaeda in Iraq is composed almost exclusively of foreign jihadists.</p>
<p>Yes, you are indeed correct - my mistake - the majority of AQI operatives are foreigners.</p>
<p>Nonetheless I highly doubt this is the same crowd as the hardened AQ vets in Afghanistan/Pakistan, and I don’t think many of these militants would have been fighting if not for America’s presence in Iraq.</p>
<p>“Who weren’t there before we barged in and destroyed any semblance of political and economic equilibrium in that country.”</p>
<p>And then had General Betrayus arm them with tens of millions of dollars in “missing” U.S. weapons. It was always “interesting” that when the U.S. would find weapons caches in Baghdad or Diyala, we would be treated with terrific tv footage, but NEVER when such caches were discovered in Anbar. Gee, I wonder why…</p>
<p>I think this phone ad benefits McCain the most. Bottom line: if there were a predator at my house, I’d rather have a former military officer/POW prepared to respond.</p>