@TopTier - “we also absolutely have no information about the applicant except high school and potential major. We are also asked not to look at any resumes or transcripts they may bring. I have been interviewing for over 25 years and I’ve never wanted that info. Also don’t ask what other schools they are applying to, only why they’re applying to Yale.”
Unfortunately, not true for all alumni interviews, all U’s. See my thread of last year, here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1611688-interviewer-says-his-wife-always-comes-along-p1.html
The most troublesome aspect of that interview, after the non-alumni wife’s domination of it, was the insistence on knowing the college list.
My students have a variety of interview experiences, not all as extreme as the latter, and probably more like the kinds of interviews you conduct, but they do vary. For example,
texaspg
“That sounds different from Harvard. They seem to make the kids bring their CVs and transcripts.”
Harvard interviewers often nail their interviewees to the wall, so to speak, grilling them rigorously either on academics or e.c.’s, or both.
But perhaps both of the latter are not quite as problematic as the interviewer with literally zero to say to one student throughout the interview. Talk about awkward silences! Naturally, the student wondered what the heck she might have said to warrant such silence.
Many interviewers ask the student where else they are applying - that does not seem to be an unusual question to ask. Rice actually asks that question on their supplement.
“Many interviewers ask the student where else they are applying - that does not seem to be an unusual question to ask. Rice actually asks that question on their supplement.”
I realize that. I just find it inappropriate. The student is under no obligation to answer it.
PurpleTitan I totally agree with your post about great students and their prospects of success whether they go to elite schools or to lesser ranked schools. But you must admit there are benefits for middle and low income students to go to Harvard et. al. One is the financial aid. If you are a low to middle income student at Harvard, Yale, Northwestern, MIT, Stanford, Amherst etc you can attend these institutions for no or little cost and without loans because of the great financial aid packages that these well endowed schools can provide. The reality is that the net cost at these elite schools is generally better than they can get at their flagship state school even with merit scholarships.
There are other reasons for students wanting to go to these elite institutions such as parental and social pressure, long time dream school, wanting to compete and learn with the best students, wanting to learn from a specific professor, or even for vanity and ego.
I don’t believe that many of the reasons I list should be held so highly but everybody has a different view. I would just like these holistic schools to be more open with the data so these kids can balance their reasons for wanting to attend these institutions with a more realistic odds of them getting in.
Nothing prevents them from looking at the overall acceptance rate and staring it in the face.
“would just like these holistic schools to be more open with the data so these kids can balance their reasons for wanting to attend these institutions with a more realistic odds of them getting in.”
But you still don’t get it. The reason the 4.0/36 has a relatively higher acceptance rate isn’t because schools value 4.0/36. It’s because getting 4.0/36 often correlates with other things that are valued.
Turning it into a matrix just gives tiger parents a bigger stick to beat their kids with, and will cause them to overemphasize “the score” over developing other aspects of themselves.
Anyway, anything below ~25% is still a crapshoot anyway, it makes not one whit of difference what the exact specific is. Either way. Prepare for rejection and be pleasantly surprised by acceptance.
“I would just like these holistic schools to be more open with the data so these kids can balance their reasons for wanting to attend these institutions with a more realistic odds of them getting in.”
Anyone who’s willing to do the research can get a decent sense of their odds. Something like CC is a great resource that didn’t exist back in the day. If they aren’t willing to do the research, I’m not sure why I should have much sympathy for them.
“I realize that. I just find it inappropriate. The student is under no obligation to answer it.”
Not sure what the alternative is. Certainly it is not advisable to ignore a question on a supplement unless it specifically states the question is optional - in the case of Rice it is not an optional question to the best of my knowledge.
With the exception of a small number of schools, I am not sure that the interview has all that much bearing on the ultimate decision. However, I do not think it helps an applicant to hedge or refuse to answer a question posed by an alumni interviewer or a member of an admissions team.
But why should these kids have to look high and low for the information when the schools that have websites where they could just provide it. Why hide the ball? Ans: To keep those applications coming and get those admission rates lower than the previous year. If you read the post with link to Wharton you can see what happens if the number of applications goes down and admit rates go up.
PurpleTitan How much would it cost to provide the information? Almost nothing.
@voiceofreason: Yep. People are stupid so schools game.
If you don’t want to play that game, you can always apply to UK universities.
HarvestMoon, it is nobody’s business, including that of the college in question, where else the student has applied.
It’s entirely up to the student whether to share such irrelevant information. Let the college guess. When the college itself (not a generic application) asks, it’s only for the college’s benefit, not the student’s.
Apparently, that does not prevent colleges from looking at the lists in FAFSA to determine what other colleges the applicant has applied to, and what the applicant’s likely preference order is.
@ucbalumnus:
Yes, colleges do stuff. Though that can be dealt with (albeit it takes more time and money).
ucbalumnus is correct - colleges do look at the order in which applicants list colleges on FAFSA. Also, colleges call counselors from time to time and who knows what they say. Then there is also social media.
Now are you people saying that colleges are seeking out information about where a student has applied as a part of its HOLISTIC admission policy to deny qualified applicants admission for the sake of protecting a college’s yield? If colleges are doing this, then why can’t you believe that colleges are using holistic admissions for improper purposes such as discrimination/bias and a means to market higher number of applications.
Because if “the game” is manipulating USNWR, admission rate is only 1.5% of the total, so it’s not as though decreasing the rate means any appreciable ratings jump.
“If colleges are doing this, then why can’t you believe that colleges are using holistic admissions for improper purposes such as discrimination/bias”
Publishing the matrix you desire does nothing to prove or disprove discrimination/bias. Where did that come from?
Guess what. Even 4.0/36/2400 is still going to be < 50% acceptance at any of these schools because these aren’t as important as you’d like them to be. Get over it!! It’s not “discrimination” when your favorite person doesn’t get in and a lower stats person gets in. It just means that they disagree with a stats-are-all-that perspective.
Honestly who cares if its the kid with a 3.6 and 32 ACT or the kid with a 4.0 and 36 ACT? The bottom line is if you chase the ivy’s you are part of it. Ivy’s are not the end all game. Life doesn’t start nor end with the top ranked schools.
@Pizzagirl: Well, the game is also manipulating stupid/shallow people.
I’ve mentioned before how on a certain Ivy League forum, you have pissing matches where some poster tries to show that School A is better than School B because School A has a lower admit rate (and unlike what another poster said, I’m pretty certain that most of them are students/alums of Ivies, though granted, most do not sound like they’ve reached 30 yet). Plus you have some folks on CC trying to say that Columbia is a tier above Duke/UPenn/etc. because their admit rate is much lower.
“If colleges are doing this, then why can’t you believe that colleges are using holistic admissions for improper purposes such as discrimination/bias” You can go to the Race in College Admissions thread and vent all you want.
No need blind school is accessing Fafsa details- not in admissions. You have to wrap your arms around the whole of this. (And understand that the more you defend confusion and demand more data, you create the impression you really don’t get it, in the first place. And that, short of being spoon fed, you caaaan’t. Not a winner’s attitude.)
The sort of kid who needs everything delivered to him is likely out of the running. The exception is inquisitive, motivated kids who just need a little final advice and perspective from a savvy adult. No one should be predicting for a kid based on stats, for holistic schools. No one should be predicting, period. (I’ve never looked at Naviance, btw.)
It is entirely possible to review an app with no intent to discriminate. In the group I know best, it is the first mandate. What you don’t realize, VoR, no matter how much you like to parse numbers, is that the app and supp are the sole vehicle a kid has to present himself as an able, viable candidate. (And then the interview.) If he doesn’t know what the school values, if he can’t pull it together in his hs choices, then his app, including essays, he just isn’t going to get far. No matter what his stats and no matter what his own hs friends, and family think of him.
This isn’t about giving kids a crack at Harvard finaid. This is about entering a college community.