<p>My biggest fear is that the well-oiled education industry, rather than cutting back its expenses, will successfully bribe the feds to assume more of the cost, and the taxpayer will be left funding trillions of dollars of college loans that eager students and colleges would lobby to have the government assume.</p>
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<p>Your location is apt. Life is not like kindergarten, and you don’t get a gold star for every bumbling step you make. Getting a 19 on the ACT can only be considered an achievement in some very specific circumstances (and even then it is only a moral victory, and exceedingly likely to go unacknowledged by the world at large). For the average high schooler it is an underachievement by definition.</p>
<p>Sewanee is a very fine school and I think it deserves to get more national exposure. Has an enchanting campus, a knack for churning out Rhodes scholars (26 so far, more than almost any other liberal arts college), and a great literary magazine.</p>
<p>Anna’sdad -</p>
<p>I don’t think that a student can be considered an underachiever unless his/her scores don’t match his/her intellectual ability. A child with LD’s who works really hard and studies and earns a 19 on the ACT is not necessarily an underachiever. </p>
<p>OTOH, a child like my son who is danger of not graduating HS this year because he is failing English for refusing to hand in HW or essays while during the same school quarter earning a 36 on the ACT English portion and a 740 on the SAT verbal (without studying for either) IS an underachiever.</p>
<p>My point is that I don’t believe a student can be labeled as an underachiever or an overachiever without more information about them than their ACT or SAT score.</p>
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<p>Perhaps the student is a relatively low achiever on the ACT, but, as we all know, any particular standardized test is only an indicator, not a perfect predictor, of how likely the student is to do well in college.</p>
<p>S1 accepted to SHU but, their F/A “award” was laughable. I forget the exact numbers but, remember the last line was “family contribution”: $40K!</p>
<p>Glad the app was free and onsite at his HS.
As another poster pointed out, their glory days ended 30 years ago.</p>
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<p>Correct. However, I think it is reasonable to project that a student whose ACT is 6 points below the state average for all students (college-bound and otherwise) is not likely to succeed at college.</p>
<p>And the Lincoln College statistics, to the extent they are available, bear this out. According to the College Board website, 60% have high school GPAs below 2.5, 23% below 2.0. I can’t find any data on graduation rate, but according to CC’s College Search page, the retention rate is 22%.</p>
<p>That tells me that the large majority of students they admit are not ready for college; and why anyone would spend $21K (plus room, board, etc.) a year to send their kid there is beyond me.</p>
<p>ipeds has a lot of data, annasdad. </p>
<p>it shows that Lincoln is primarily a AA-degree granting college. Moreover, it has a large part-time component, since only 53% are FT. Well over 70% of its students are URM (and likely poor?), so lowering sticker is a marketing necessity. 40% graduate (within 6 years?).</p>
<p>[College</a> Navigator - Lincoln College](<a href=“College Navigator - Search Results”>College Navigator - Institution Not Found)</p>
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<p>Thanks for the link. I checked CB and CC and searched for a CDS, which apparently they do not publish.</p>
<p>So you can go to Lincoln and get your AA for $42K tuition, or from the local CC, which at our CC district would run you a shade over $5K tuition. Our CC’s retention rate for FT students is 61%, the three-year grad rate 31%, 37% in four years. (CC grad rates are always low because many students transfer out before graduating.) So I’ll ask again: why would you pay to send your kid to Lincoln?</p>
<p>A Brown rep told a prospective student not to bother To apply with an ACT score of 28. I guess those students with below 30 ACT must be under achievers, huh?</p>
<p>I would like to know what kind of students would be best to go to a school like Harvard if not for high achievers. No, I don’t understand.</p>
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<p>You wouldn’t. People are not disputing that. People are disputing the claim that a particular ACT score automatically makes one an underachiever in areas other than the ACT.</p>
<p>An “underachiever” is someone who performs below their ability. It is a relative term, not an absolute. An underachiever could have a 3.8 gpa or an ACT of 30 if they could have had higher numbers. That student could be an underachiever if they settled for a life without any college, despite the fact that most adults won’t have gone to college. Looked it up in Webster’s dictionary after wrote post- #1 definition refers to school work specifically, # 2 “to perform below expectations”. One half of any population has to be below average, therefore 1/2 are expected to perform below average…</p>
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[Average</a> ACT Score - American College Testing Average Scores](<a href=“太阳成集团tyc33455cc-点此登录”>http://www.averageactscore.com/)</p>
<p>This means that the average SAT is around 21, with a standard deviation of about 4.7. That does not equate to saying that these students are underachievers. To compare, the average IQ score is 100 with a standard deviation of 15. This doe not mean that these average students are underachievers. They are just average. And they have every right to go to college in a school that is appropriate for their abilities. As wis75 said, they are working to their potential.</p>
<p>I agree…the SAT/ACT scores aren’t the best indicators of college success and to reduce the whole admissions process to a numbers game is exactly what many colleges don’t want. There are many, many students that don’t score as high on those tests as their classmates and go on to do very well in college and in life. Whether they didn’t prep well, don’t test well, don’t take the darn things multiple times, have other things weighing on their thoughts, etc. we’ll never know. But it’s clear that work ethic plays a large role in college success and that’s something that can’t be quantified on a standardized test. </p>
<p>I think we’ve all known kids with high gpas and test scores that were lazy or lacked common sense and others who work very hard for their grades and juggle mutiple commitments. If there were a finite number of spots left in a freshman class, I’d rather see the hard worker further his education and continue trying to make a difference in the world but that’s just me. I don’t think college is a good path for everyone and many teenagers would probably do well to at least take a gap year or two but if they have a dream then they certainly should find a school, hopefully an affordable one, that can help them in their pursuit of that goal. YMMV</p>
<p>Some folks seem to have an issue with parents/students paying “higher” (in quotes because that varies by family) tuition for what is viewed as colleges that are not viewed as “worthy” because they either accept a high %age of students OR something similar.</p>
<p>True story here…I was one of the defectors from another college info site where the term “TTT” was often used to describe such schools. To be honest, it offended me, and it still does…no matter what you call it.</p>
<p>There are students who are later bloomers. For some, going to a school of this type can be a wonderful. It can give a student the opportunity to attend college, and YES some (maybe many) of these students do go on to successful careers. These schools do not typically have good 4-6 year graduation rates because many of their students either go part time, take longer to graduate because they take time off, or are non-traditional students in some other way.</p>
<p>I know…I live with someone who got a degree at an expensive private university that some would view as being not worth the money. Ahem…so what if he went on the Twelve Year Plan? So what if the school isn’t a big name? So what? It served his (and our) purposes well…and you know what? We donate to that schools very meager endowment fund every year.</p>
<p>Please stop bashing the choices other people make. There are many reasons why someone would choose to send a kid to a school that OTHERS view as over priced and not worth it. That is their business…and if it works for them…fine!!</p>
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<p>That’s what community colleges are for - at far less cost.</p>
<p>Can you give me ONE advantage of sending a kid to a $21,000 school over a $5,000 community college - other than giving the kid an opportunity for a “full college experience?”</p>
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<p>But the RETENTION RATE is only 22%!</p>
<p>You’re admitting kids with C-/D+ averages in high school. You really expect them to be able to do college work? Yes, a few will pull it together; they’d also pull it together in a community college.</p>
<p>I believe that more faculty at 4 year institutions are fulltime faculty, with Ph.Ds moreso than masters degrees and generally more available to the students than at the typical community college.</p>
<p>Just because a student has average ACT scores does not mean they are a C-/D+ student.</p>
<p>In my book, $21k for college (tuition/room/board/etc) is pretty reasonable.</p>
<p>Are you claiming the retention rate at CC’s is better than at some of these other schools? Which one is 22%? Doubt many cc’s are much different.</p>
<p>We are from Northern California and Sewanee has become very interesting to us. I have send one to Whitman and intend to send both my kids out of state to experience different parts of the country. Neither would qualify for Ivy League, both would qualify for good, but not top LACs or UCs (Davis but not Berkeley). I make too much money for financial aid, but not enough to handle two private school tuitions without serious financial pain. Thus, a good LAC offering a tuition break sounds very attractive to me.</p>
<p>Sewanee has produced 25 Rhodes Scholars in its history, one as recently as 2004, so it apparently attracts some good students and has some ability to teach them. It is ranked in the 30s for LAC by the USN&WR, for whatever that is worth. In our case, it was worth a look into a college we had not heard of before.</p>
<p>It is an Episcopalian University, college really, but it has a seminary and master’s program in English, but no one is required to attend chapel and one doesn’t need to be episcopalian to go there. The campus is modeled on Cambridge and is beautiful, and in an obscure but stunning location on the Cumberland Plateau. If you need a city at your fingertips, Sewanee is not for you. If you love a bucolic setting, it might be. “The Domain” is the name for the huge campus which forests, rivers, lakes, caves, overlooks, trails, etc. If you have a car, which my daughter will not, it is just under two hours from Nashville and about an hour from Chattanooga. </p>
<p>Sewanee is not filled with uniformly elite students, but the top end of the class is reasonably accomplished. The classes are small and there are quirky customs like “gownsmen,” top students, wearing academic robes to class along with the professors. To us, it looks like Hogwarts south.</p>
<p>Our visit there went very well, and my daughter liked the people she met on her overnight stay. She will be more liberal than most students, but not alone. The big plus for her is the varsity equestrian program with a facility built in 2005. She has been riding for years on the “down low” as she puts it (no trailer and no money for big shows), and would like a chance to ride in college. </p>
<p>If Sewanee keeps the tuition drop from last year, the cost of Sewanee becomes roughly $14,000 less per year ($42k vs. $56k) than UVA (for out of state), Washington and Lee, Vanderbilt, and Duke. While the latter two universities have national reputations, they are pushing $60k a year with travel for out of state students. She might receive some merit scholarship at Sewanee to reduce the cost further, which would be next to impossible at the other schools mentioned. Her odds of admission to a Duke or Vanderbilt are far less as well. We like the idea of a smaller college with smaller classes. </p>
<p>While no one where we live has heard of Sewanee, not many Northern Californians would know W & L either despite its loftier ranking, and may not know a lot about UVA, Vanderbilt, or Duke either (other than the basketball team). UCs are starting to approach $30k per year, and are more likely to take an extra year due to scheduling issues than a small LAC. </p>
<p>In short, the tuition drop at Sewanee makes it very attractive choice for us. Bates, Scripps, Colby may be better and/or better known LACs, but not enough so to make up $15k per year (or more) in our circumstances. Of course, the equestrian angle may be less important to most folks than it is to us.</p>
<p>In any event, I hope it is more than a one year aberration, a bait and switch. I believe that they announce their fees for next year in February. I am keeping my fingers crossed.</p>
<p>YK, if the kid is motivated, a hard worker, and sincere … and a C average is just all he is capable of because that’s where he’s at … I don’t see why he’s any less “deserving” of the pleasure of an away-from-home college experience compared to his smarter sibling.</p>
<p>This reminds me of a discussion about some university in NC (I want to say High Point?) that apparently had very nice dorms, student centers, athletic facilities, grounds, etc. Some people seemed to have the attitude that those nice facilities were “wasted” on students who were probably pretty average or not much above average. I find that appalling. Why, you’re only deserving of going to school in a pleasant environment if you have an ACT above a certain range? Nice rooms are fine if you’re at Harvard, but not at Low-Average State U?</p>
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<p>Lincoln’s average high school GPA of freshmen is 2.77, according to your post #2. That is more like B- average, not C-/D+ average. While it does seem like a poor value (considering that its course offerings are more limited than those of most community colleges), that does not mean that its students were C-/D+ students in high school.</p>
<p>(Yes, some students posting here seem to think that an A- is like a B, a B is like a C-, and a C is like an F, given their aspirations to go to a highly selective university, or (once in university) go to medical school, but we should all remember the actual meaning of the letter grades, right?)</p>
<p>Bogney,
Sewanee (Univ of the South) is well respected down here in the SE. That said, I don’t know too many who have attended. Those who have attended have said the academics are very challenging.</p>