<p>As someone who can barely add (I realize that talking like this is part of the problem, but it’s true), I’m thankful that my daughters are pursuing math and computer science in college. I’m also thankful that the dearth of women in these fields is now a national conversation. This can only work to their advantage when looking for jobs. I don’t mean to stereotype when stating that boys are naturally stronger at math; it was only a personal observation in my math heavy world in which my kids participate. I am happy to defer to the scientists who are working to prove otherwise.</p>
<p>“This reminds me of the episode of Big Bang where Sheldon is attempting to interest 7th grade girls in science and mentions that they could follow the example of Marie Curie, become great scientists, and die in agony due to the materials they were working with. I admire Marie Curie, and don’t mean to insult her memory with this comment. But if you are a young woman in science, “Marie Curie” offers a pretty slim thread of hope, as a seemingly singular example of a successful woman in science.”</p>
<p>Why does everyone interested in science need to be inspired by a Marie Curie, though? Can’t it be as simple as – gee, I like science, I appear to be good at it, and off I go? What’s the need for the Grand Inspiration? Do you think most people choose what they study based on Grand Inspirations, or just because they like (area of study) and are good at it?</p>
<p>I don’t really think it’s unusual for young people to take inspiration from important figures that have gone before them. I remember reading a book about Elizabeth Blackwell when I was a kid and briefly thinking I might want to become a doctor. </p>
<p>There are still relatively few women in STEM fields, though the percentages are increasing. As a young girl (middle-school aged), I was really happy to see astronomer Maria Mitchell profiled in my science text. She was the only woman among a slew of men in the text. She was important to me. I don’t suppose that she qualifies as a “Grand Inspiration,” but if you have rather obvious personal characteristics that put you in a clear minority in a field that interests you, it seems good to know of someone else in the field who shares the characteristics.</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl, you really do seem to have something against science fields. There is plenty of gender bias in the humanities too even though there are more women. Apparently it is quite a problem in academic music as well from what I have heard. </p>
<p>Also, you seem to view people in science as people who think they are so smart that they don’t even understand their lack of emotional intelligence. While that may be true of some people, a lot of the most brilliant people I know are, in fact, incredibly humble and very nice. Even though some of them are awkward, many open up after you get to know them. They are also for the most part aware of their social awkwardness. I know my friends are, they will openly admit it and say that they think they need to try to socialize more.</p>
<p>There is also a lot of progress being made at places like Harvard and MIT to encourage and support women in the sciences. There are a lot of male faculty who will go out of their way to mentor female students so they can do their best.</p>
<p>I don’t understand the issue you have about Marie Curie. For me, she was a wonderful role model. In elementary school, I was always bombarded with images of Bill Nye the Science Guy so it was nice learning about her.</p>
<p>His about some nice, more recent female role models. For us all. Q?</p>
<p>
Isn’t that place Caltech? (Not that they actually study all the time.)</p>
<p>My feelings about MIT has the non plus ultra of STEM was dashed when we attended a local MIT event. All the alumni who were there introduced themselves. They’d mostly studied engineering but were all in investment banking. Not my son’s interests at all. Of course upon a little further thought I realized that if you attend an MIT event in the NYC suburbs you are more likely to get the investment bankers.</p>
<p>Attended a college event last night - Caltech, UChicago, U Illinois, JHU and Georgia Tech.</p>
<p>The guy from GTech comes on stage and goes you might meet some people who went to GTech who will tell you it is not hard to get in. Don’t trust them since it is no longer that easy to get in, only the best do and that is why he got invited by the privates in top 20 to join them on this tour with them! :D</p>
<p>He also talked about a student who spent a semester abroad in Paris, liked how that city is very conducive to neighborhoods and commuting and wrote a senior thesis about it and forgot all about it. Some real life applications program at the school said lets see if this flies and started talking to cities and lo and behold, several major cities are planning around his vision. Not too bad for lowly State engineering school education, huh?</p>
<p><a href=“http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/01/ryan-gravels-moment-wasnt-when-he-conceived-the-beltline-it-was-when-others-embraced-it/”>http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/01/ryan-gravels-moment-wasnt-when-he-conceived-the-beltline-it-was-when-others-embraced-it/</a></p>
<p>@lookingforward
Raising hand. Yes me! Imagine my horror at finding I was hundreds of posts behind.</p>
<p>“Not too bad for lowly state engineering school graduate, huh”? I’m sure you’re joking but yes, it is always interesting how some people seem to view some of our public universities. I doubt anybody who knows anything about engineering would undervalue Georgia Tech though. Especially, since it’s ranked #5 in undergraduate engineering, # 6 in graduate engineering, and #1 in Industrial and Systems Engineering (at both the undergraduate and graduate levels) !</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Personally I would recommend all young women on CC to follow molliebatmit’s life as the person to emulate in STEM. She seems to have done alright by being a high school cheerleader who somehow got into MIT (what a mistake right?) and went onto Harvard for a PhD. She might yet invent something but who knows, she might still go become a gym teacher given her cheerleader background.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The best way to elevate the prestige of a school is to start rejecting people that would normally get in. It’s an application of Groucho Marx’ principle – “I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.”</p>
<p>I guess you could also call it the university version of the “Special Snowflake” syndrome. Even if it admits a class of 10,000, no one better consider the Special Snowflake University a safety. </p>
<p>“I don’t understand the issue you have about Marie Curie.”</p>
<p>I have no issue with Marie Curie. Whatsoever! My point was a different one - not that Marie Curie is “bad,” but that there is such an overemphasis on this thread about people needing to be inspired and taught by The Very Best. I don’t know, most people I know chose their majors because, well, they liked them and were good at them and found them interesting. Not because they felt they needed to be The Very Best in Their Fields (or bust). </p>
<p>BTW, being awkward isn’t a sign of lack of emotional intelligence – it’s just awkwardness, which anyone can have / be. The lack of emotional intelligence comes in the belief that one’s destiny is irrevocably shaped by attending Just One Very Special School, and that if one isn’t accepted there, one’s science dreams are dashed, one’s horizons and future are irrevocably constrained, and one might as well leave science. Those aren’t the characters of a winner.</p>
<p>There’s also a lack of emotional intelligence implicit in categorizing a lot of very fine universities that aren’t MIT as one step above East Whereville State U with a lab made out of popsicle sticks. </p>
<p>Other state schools do tour with privates. UVa tours with Harvard, Princeton, and Yale to some cities. To others, it teams with Emory, Notre Dame, and UNC. Also, with Berkeley, JHU, and Emory. It’s good that kids get exposed to different types of schools and interesting to see who the schools choose to tour with. <a href=“http://www.admission.virginia.edu/uva-visits-you”>http://www.admission.virginia.edu/uva-visits-you</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am not certain that is what they are doing. Essentially, State schools like UT, Georgia Tech and U of I with prestigious engineering schools tend to reflect a ridiculously high admit rate that belies their academic stature. People who look at the numbers don’t realize many of them are admitting large number of instate applicants who are auto admits but those numbers don’t apply to OOS or International applicants from whom admissions can choose the very best since they are paying large fees but are also interested in the schools for specific majors. Essentially this guy was encouraging students who are there to apply to other top schools to apply to GTech but also telling them not to think of GTech as a safety based on some older alums’ input.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>PG,</p>
<p>One possible reason for your perspective is that you weren’t interested and/or didn’t continue on into grad school and the world of academia where finding a key mentor, especially a topflight scholar is helpful in starting and facilitating one’s growth as a scholar from undergrad through PhD and beyond…or knew a critical mass of folks who did. </p>
<p>That’s understandable as most people…even most who attended undergrad without having a strong pull towards pursuing a PhD and academia-related careers or had family/friends who did may not be fully aware of this importance. Although I’m not an academic, I have plenty of relatives and friends who are or are going through/have gone through the grad -> PhD/Postdoc process in STEM and non-STEM fields. </p>
<p>The ones who didn’t get good mentoring or were left out in the cold at any point due to factors ranging from sub-field/institutional political mismatches to a few cases of abysmal social skills on the grad students’ part end up struggling and are much more likely end up being pushed out and thus, forced to consider other endeavors. </p>
<p>As Poeme has hinted #984, it seems you and others sympathizing with your arguments and QM are talking past each other.</p>
<p>The conversational dynamic in this thread between you and QM resembles that of the business/engineering professional side and the academic sides of my family talking past each other when similar topics come up. </p>
<p>Each side just doesn’t get it because they don’t have much/any experience with the experiences/lack thereof of the other side and worse, aren’t very interested or curious in examining why each of the respective opposing side has the perspective they hold. </p>
<p>To be fair, QM issue sounds like something which would be much more important regarding grad school admissions…especially PhD program admissions than undergrad. </p>
<p>Especially considering the vast majority of college graduates…including natural science majors don’t end up continuing in their initial academic field at the MA/MS/PhD level. And no, professional degree programs like MD, JD, and MBAs are their own very different experiences and closer to a continuation of undergrad in some ways than an academia-oriented MA/MS/PhD program in a given academic field. </p>
<p>It’s the lack of clear focus, the detours and rambling, cobrat, that lines some up.</p>
<p>Mollieb is an excellent young example and I like her very much. But she’s still forming. Now will someone name the appropriate role models between Curie and Mollie? I did find an intriguing list of female physics profs- but that’s because I looked. Who are the noted examples in, say, the past 20 years. Or ten. Maybe some young. The sort hs gals might hear about and be inspired by? Ala Sally Ride. And then, are people bringing these women to kids’ attention?</p>
<p>ps. they fixed the post order issue for this thread in Bookmarks. So far.</p>
<p>Also, I detect a bit of an anti-nerd vibe here. What are everyone’s thoughts on this essay related to this thread’s topic?:</p>
<p><a href=“Why Nerds are Unpopular”>Paul Graham;
<p><a href=“Re: Why Nerds are Unpopular”>Paul Graham;
<p>@lookingforward - you give me the names, I will bring them to kids’ attention. 
And I look for them myself, too, but I’m just one person.</p>
<p>@pizzagirl - the thing about role models is, it’s not always clear how they affect us. Studies do show that the existence (and one’s awareness) of people who “look like you” in fields makes it more likely you will choose those fields. Sometimes it’s obvious, like when a woman started teaching our APCS course at my school, enrollment started to shift gender-wise. And sometimes it’s less so. I don’t think it’s always conscious, either.</p>