<p>In all those thousands of posts, has anyone on either side of the issues moved much off of their original opinion/position? I haven’t read the thread, but I suspect not.</p>
<p>
Absolutely not.</p>
<p>Edited to say that yes, I guess <em>my</em> position DID change somewhat. At first I thought they lax players might have been guilty. Now, I’m convinced otherwise.</p>
<p>How can one’s opinion have changed when the process has barely begun? I am for the process not deciding who is or isn’t.</p>
<p>berurah: No offense taken. I was being humorous as well. Perhaps you missed my smiley face? 
And since the number of posts is right under the name, it’s hard to miss. Oh, wait. I almost forgot.</p>
<p>coureur: The one reason to read that thread, if you’re at all interested in the case, is that the news links and opinion pieces provided are numerous and varied, and seem to hit that thread quicker than the newspaper can hit your front door. </p>
<p>Aside from that, I do think that the entire thread offers a fascinating glimpse at viewpoints regarding [some] of society’s ills that still exist–in full force–in the 21st C, including: racism; sexism; classism; alcoholism; athleticism; any other “ism” you can think of-- not to mention a slew of other fun stuff. </p>
<p>I personally have no interest in who gets into what college; the “what are my chances” threads; and what college is ranked higher or lower than some other college. In fact, I find most of the threads on CC fairly mind-numbing. That one thread, though, I find very intriguing–I admit. Plus, I am writing a book . . . Oh, wait. :)</p>
<p>*Plus, I am writing a book . . . Oh, wait. *
I prescribe writing your book somewhere, where there is no internet.
Unfortunately- we even had wireless in the rural lodge where we vacation- no cell service, but free wireless ;)</p>
<p>I had no idea I had posted so much either; it’s the first thread I posted on, except for asking a question about national leadership program invitations for kids, after reading for at least two years. </p>
<p>To me it’s refreshing to see the ideas of obviously intelligent people expressed through a national news story, not just through tips on college admittance! And since we are all, or mostly, parents of college-age kids, all the issues involved in this story hit home for us.</p>
<p>I hope this particular thread hasn’t been started to shame posters into not posting on the lacrosse thread, as if there is something wierd about it, or to suggest that posters have agendas.</p>
<p>As someone said, we have people who have done research on certain aspects of the case, and who post articles concerning it many of us would not see otherwise.</p>
<p>We’ve also had several lawyers with extremely interesting insights who have been posting. Where else can you find immediate commentary like that, except on television? And you can’t ask questions of the people on tv! </p>
<p>My view has always been to wait and see what happens. I have tried to be fair to the players, while keeping in mind that the victim has rights too. To me all the issues about college drinking, sex, racism, etc. have been separate from the allegation of rape by the two young men. I hope they are not guily of rape, but on the other hand, I believe that the victim was beaten, and if I believe the hospital report, raped. I would like to know who did this to her, if it turns out it is not the young men. I hope they are also questioning other people, such as her employer, former boyfriends, etc. as to their whereabouts that evening.</p>
<p>Coureur - Alexatduke06’s opinion changed, too - at first he felt the players were guilty. At this point I think he feels differently.</p>
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<p>Opinions do not require due process – not in reality and not even in theory. Due process is a legal requirement that we must follow before we can lock someone up. Thus, someone is presumed innocent under the law and treated as such (i.e. not punished) until due process determines that he is guilty. But that doesn’t mean that we as individuals must actually BELIEVE he is innocent. Likewise, a guilty verdict in a trial does not force any individual to believe the person actually committed the crime.</p>
<p>Due process declared OJ Simpson to be not guilty, but many people have opinions to the contrary. And they are perfectly free to do so.</p>
<p>My opinion has changed too. I used to think that Duke was an institution that instilled positive values in young men and women.</p>
<p>I used to think that Duke was an institution that instilled positive values in young men and women.</p>
<p>I don’t beleive people change drastically from when they are 10 to when they are 20 to when they are 30
Sure changes can happen over time- but if someone isn’t great about speaking up when they are 12, they aren’t going to have much easier of a time when they are 22. I think it is the parents role to instill good values in kids-early on-& I think we have seen some lapses in the young people involved no matter what “side” of the case you are on.</p>
<p>
Though it may be part of a school’s or other institution’s responsibility to help <em>UPHOLD</em> such values, it is most certainly not any institution’s responsibility to “instill” them. What a <em>parent</em> cannot manage to achieve over 18 years when s/he is raising one or two or six (like I have) or eight kids, an institution CANNOT be expected to do when it is attempting to provide for the education (and safety) of THOUSANDS. Sorry, but there comes a time when individuals MUST take responsibility for their OWN actions and NOT blame their deficiencies upon a school or other bureaucratic institution. And there comes a time when BLAME should be squarely placed with INDIVIDUALS for any wrongdoing, not with those same large entities.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>oh lord, please believe that i didn’t go through that entire thread and count the number of posts. i may be out of school for the summer, but i am not that bored. yet.</p>
<p>there is a tool on the main forum page to find such information. just click on the number of replies and it will tell you who has posted, and how much.</p>
<p>upstater05, how’d you do that?</p>
<p>Just posted one more. My last one too!</p>
<p>if only pigs could fly.</p>
<p>well
swine may not take to the air- but my brother recently admitted that he does not agree with how Bush is handling Iraq ( among other things) so I am expecting Lucifer to be getting fitted for ice skates anyday now ;)</p>
<p>Do the posts on this thread get to be added to the 6934 (and counting)?</p>
<p>Coureur - my position has become far more polarized, if anything. But that’s as much because of new developments as published in main stream media as it is in anything expressed in the 6,900+ posts.</p>
<p>I just discovered this thread while doing a search.</p>
<p>Like others, I have weaned myself from the Duke Lacrosse thread. It was too dispiriting. I didn’t like myself much on there–and I <em>really</em> didn’t like some shocking racist statements by a few. </p>
<p>I recommend identifying the the posters who’ve made it their lives to hate the accuser, then pretend they’re pop-ups and train your eyes away! Once a week or so I scan for some interesting objective posters and also any links to mainstream press articles. In that way, I keep up on news and also the views of disinterested forum members, and don’t get tempted into wasting my time on a shouting match.</p>
<p>I’m even going to avoid reading this thread again!</p>
<p>
This is TRULY an <em>EXCELLENT</em> idea. In fact, it is SO good that I would suggest that the same be done for those who have made it their lives to hate the lacrosse players, Duke, all (helmeted) athletes, all elite colleges–and any other “all” group!</p>
<p>~berurah</p>