<p>Woo-hoo! State legislators have published a press release about this very tragic incident. The state Attorney General is also looking into the matter.</p>
<p>Update: Bay City Electric Power has suspended limiters this season and will review their policy</p>
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<p>[Michigan</a> Senate Democrats](<a href=“http://www.senate.mi.gov/dem/pr.php?id=1167]Michigan”>http://www.senate.mi.gov/dem/pr.php?id=1167)</p>
<p>In the best possible world what should have happened? He had no family, so no one there could check on him…he is 93 so most of his lifelong friends would be dead already…maybe a church group? Maybe neighbors, but how would they know to check on him? Who should have called social services to put him in a home?
These decisions are all so very tough on those of us working with our failing parents, their is no real system to advise you, how does a guy on his own recognise and seek help for the beginnings of dementia.</p>
<p>Both my Dad and my FIL are living their own lives and making their own choices, but they need help with some really silly, easy for me, things; how could this little guy have done it on his own? And if he was not truly off his rocker, then his neighbors would not likely know him well enough to see the early signs.</p>
<p>I don’t know what the answer is, but a lawsuit is not the answer and neither is more government.</p>
<p>Social responsibility? Great! That means I never have to pay another bill because society will take care of me. </p>
<p>No, it’s not the electric company’s fault nor is it greedy on their part. Just like it’s not the beer company’s fault when some idiot decides to drive drunk and kill a family of four. It’s not the gun manufacturer’s fault when someone decides to do a drive by. It’s not the paper company’s fault you get a paper cut. It sounds like the electric company went out of it’s way to provide a service to the man even after he was behind by $1000. It’s sad when anyone dies, but bottom line, it’s not the electric company’s fault.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but you don’t cut off someone’s electricity when temperatures are that frigid, and if you have some sort of device for limiting it you need to make sure the person understands how to use it. I might also add that if you’ve had a reliable customer for years who is suddenly not paying and not contacting you, I think as a human being you have a reasonable duty of care to find out what is going on. Once they found out they were dealing with a 93 year old, if they didn’t already know, they had an obligation to call social services.</p>
<p>Man, did I roll my eyes(post 24). A long time customer of the electric company quits paying, so the company has an obligation to find out why, and then obligated to call on social services? I just don’t see it. The electric companys obligation was to provide a service the customer was obligated to pay for.</p>
<p>If it’s a social responsibility as tenisghs tells us(post 20) then let society pay. His friends, family, church, welfare, similar gov’t agencies, and any others who may volunteer to help him. It is not a corporate responsibility.</p>
<p>Is it really always someone else’s fault? Are things sometimes our own fault? Is there sometimes no fault?</p>
<p>Icargirl: but you don’t cut off someone’s electricity when temperatures are that frigid</p>
<p>So if someone fell behind on his bills, a lot like a thousand dollar, you cut off power only on a warms day, and a sudden frigid blast comes then what, since you can’t control the weather.</p>
<p>Some of you are thinking of the public utilities as if it’s a person. If it were a person nearby, it might know the state of the gentleman, that he lived alone and couldn’t handle his affairs. But it’s not. neither is it an investigative body. There is no way to tell if the house wasn’t simply abandoned. I bet in a large metro area, there are thousands of people falling behind each month. All that humanistic talk about him being a long-time,reliable customer is just that. A million other customers are like that. Who’s fault? Maybe no fault. Maybe his family should’ve looked in on him and commit him to a nursing home. But at 93 there’s good chance he’s last of his clan with no mention of children. Don’t forget the power were cutoff before the sudden frigid spell hit. Lastly, I think the poor gentleman bears some responsibility for planning out his life from earlier on so his sunset years will be cared for.</p>
<p>Do you also think that we should deny emergency medical care to people without insurance? I’d say continuing to provide at last basic power to people in the kinds of temperatures we’re talking about is at pretty much the same level. If they had a meter that could short out at a certain level, I think they could have had a meter that wouldn’t rise above that temperature, but wouldn’t stop functioning either. There are enough elderly or disabled people in the world that to install something that requires going outside the home to fix isn’t a viable option if you want to avoid situations just like the one we’re dealing with.</p>
<p>And to blame this poor man even in part is disgusting. He clearly had some form of dementia - he had enough money to pay the bill but lacked the wherewithal to send it in. He wasn’t responsible for his actions anymore, and to think that it is so easy to prepare beforehand for someone to check on you regularly in the event that you start losing it is ridiculous. If he was in the early stages of dementia, a casual friend or neighbor isn’t necessarily going to notice it.</p>
<p>Just read the threads featuring those of us dealing with elderly parents who are failing, what are you supposed to do when some one has lost 5% mental capacity? 10%? 25%? Who judges? When do you take over? And that is for older people with family watching over them, this guy was all along, no wife, no kids, I don’t know the answer, but you cannot blame any one, really.</p>
<p>Don’t worry. In a liberal-controlled society, individuals never has to take responsibility. </p>
<p>If you are senile, sufferred from dementia, couldn’t come to the door for the service person to tell you how to reset the device, just sue the corporation. They are always wrong. Liberal jury will make sure of that.</p>
<p>What kind of comparison is that?(medical emergency post 27) Most would strongly agree emergency care should be given to those without insurance. But that is an unfair comparison. -Do we expect doctors to guess that a patient is ill, and send the ambulance rushing to his house, if he hasn’t heard from him for a while? THAT is what some are expecting the electric company to do.</p>
<p>Yes, there is a meter that controls how high the temperature goes in a household. But the electric company doesn’t supply it. It’s called a thermostat. </p>
<p>I read nothing in the article to hint this poor fellow had dementia. Possible? You bet. But not in the article I read. Perhaps if he were just a procrastinator some wouldn’t feel as sorry for him?Merely having the money doesn’t prove dementia to me. Even if I knew it to be true, I still cannot blame the electric company.</p>
<p>“tenisghs has an interesting take on this tragedy. Hold the electric company responsible for a tragedy that happened to a customer that didn’t pay his bill. He must have gotten notice after notice about his bill and the possible actions. Different than tenisghs, I was thinking something almost the opposite. I’m thinking if that man has any family, they should be held accountable. I completely agree it sounds like negligent homicide. Any/every living family member has neglected him. Surely someone in his family could have chipped in enough to pay electric company, or could have taken him in, or could have checked on him regularly. Many options were available to family. If he has family, this family has done nothing.
If of course he has no family, that is a different story.”</p>
<p>I accept that care of the elderly, poor and otherwise unable should fall upon family, and not utilities providers and other businesses. However, if his non-existent family failed him, what does that say about his friends, his neighbors, etc.? Society is premised on the idea that having responsibility to care/lead/punish its fellow members.</p>
<p>I agree with ICargirl and the two politicians. Proper steps should be taken to ensure customers know how to operate the limiter device, including accessing their abilities. Dementia aside, a 93-year old man going outside in freezing temperatures fails that test.</p>
<p>Mr Schur was incapcitated. He couldn’t come to the door when service man arrived. It’s silly - if the service guy is able to see Mr Schur, why wouldn’t Mr. Schur just give him the money and he wouldn’t have to put on the limiter. In his incapitated state Mr Schur did not answer the door. To the electric company this could have been an abandoned house as someone has pointed out. What else could an electric company do - call the fire department ? That’s not a wise use of precise city resources. Do you know how much it cost to send a fire crew out ? And it would divert resource against a real fire. It comes back to why Mr. Schur was in such a predicament. But blaming the electric company certainly is placing the wrong focus. As for those politicians who decry injustice they are politician out to swing your votes.</p>
<p>Think it through to poster #31. The limiter must be put on the outside. That’s where the junction box is. And the utility guy should not enter the home to put on such a device for his own safety. Who knows what he will be greeted with. Last thing, you want a device someone can just flip on/off, that easy? Why have one ? </p>
<p>93 yr old man going outside in freezing temp to reset. This goes back to why is he not cared for by someone? Do not blame the electic company.</p>
<p>Re: 32.
So the service technician should simply install the device and walk away? It’s obvious someone is occupied - the house is using electricity.
He/She shouldn’t knock on a neighbor’s door to figure out how to contact the owner? Delay installation until contacting the owner?</p>
<p>Re: 33.
Re-read the article. Specifically this part: “If the homeowner uses too much electricity, the device shuts off all power to the home, and needs to be reset. City officials believe that nobody explained the device’s operation to Schur, who tripped the device and did not reset it.”
Therefore the user needs to be instructed how to reset the limiter. That responsibility falls to the service technician, no matter what they may or may not be greeted with. And as part of explaining how to operate the device, the service technician should have known that a 93-yo man would be unable to perform the task in the middle of winter. The service technician and power company hold significant responsibility in this case.</p>
<p>This seems to be a “perfect storm” of tragic events. I know more than one elderly person who would refuse to come to the door if a stranger knocked. The neighbor claimed that he was hard of hearing and had some dementia. Maybe the gentleman didn’t hear if the service man knocked before the limiter was installed. </p>
<p>No one will ever know what the gentleman was thinking. Hopefully some good will come out of this. However, if a utility customer refuses to give a secondary contact number or is someone who keeps to his or herself, then things like this will happen in the future.</p>
<p>I have to jump in and side with edvest and Silverlady makes a lot of sense. Ferry, think: if the service guy is able to EXPLAIN HOW TO USE THE LIMITER, why didnt he just hand him the money ???</p>
<p>Secondarily,utility works have tight schedule and are not social workers. It’s apparent house is occupied ? The person could be out.</p>
<p>“Ferry, think: if the service guy is able to EXPLAIN HOW TO USE THE LIMITER, why didnt he just hand him the money ???”</p>
<p>Except that it seems the service guy was not able to reach the man. Therefore the device should not have been installed.</p>
<p>I am sorry that this happened. However, I don’t think that the power company bears responsibility. Blame cannot and should not always be placed when bad things happen. I have a brother who has severe depression. He stopped going to work. He stopped picking up his mail. He stopped paying his bills. He stopped cleaning his house. One day, he stopped going back to his apartment. He lived in his car for weeks (even though he did have an apartment, and his rent was up to date when he disappeared). When his employer let him go, it was not his employer’s fault - or maybe some think it would have been their fault if my brother starved because he no longer had money for food? When he stopped paying his phone bill, the phone company cut off his service - or maybe some think the phone company would be liable if my brother had had a medical emergency and been unable to call 911?. When he stopped cleaning his apartment, it became a health hazard - or maybe some think it would have been the apartment staff’s fault if my brother contracted some disease from the squalor, since they should have known his place was filthy.? When he lived in his car, it wasn’t his family’s fault, because he did have a place to stay - or maybe we should have been jailed for neglect because we didn’t take care of a mentally ill family member’s needs? Whose fault was it that he was fired … lost phone service … lived in squalor … lived in his car? It wasn’t his employers, the phone company’s, the apartment staff’s, or even his family’s (he lived out of town & wouldn’t allow us in when we came to see him, so we had no clue how bad things were). He couldn’t help what happened to him, because he truly had mental issues. But it wasn’t anyone else’s fault, either. S**t happens. </p>
<p>That is not to say that safeguards should not be put in place to try to catch the folks who are having trouble & to try to help them. I know that my family was overwhelmed by how much the apartment staff cared & how they helped us search for my brother. A wonderful police officer assisted us, even though a grown man who leaves home of his own free will is not really a missing person. A caring pharmacist alerted the policeman when my brother refilled a prescription. We are truly thankful for the assistance these people gave us … but in no way do we feel that any of them OWED anything to us. If they had not done what they did, they wouldn’t be at fault for anything. </p>
<p>I am a very compassionate person. But not everything is someone else’s fault.</p>
<p>I feel compassion for the man in the story, as well as for others who are behind on their bills. However, if we expect the power company to investigate the situation of every customer behind on his bills, we will pay a lot more for our power … and if we decide it’s not okay to cut off the power for those who do not pay, we will be paying even more. Heck, I could use the money I pay for power for other things. Maybe I would stop paying if I could.</p>
<p>From post #37
*
Except that it seems the service guy was not able to reach the man. Therefore the device should not have been installed.*</p>
<p>Is this a learning-deficit answer? The service guy **couldn’t reach him because **Mr Schur was senile and suffered dementia and did not answer the door.</p>
<p>There is no way to tell the difference between that and A) abandoned house B) Occupant is out C) Occupant peaked thru the window and saw utility man with pad lock and just won’t anwer the door. Service man is not social worker. He does not walk around the neighborhood to investigate.</p>
<p>Service man has job to do. Power company has business to run. Can’t continue to lose $ on non-paying customers who continue to use electricity but fall behind thousands of $$. It is a utility company, not a charity. It can’t operate a business that way. </p>
<p>Politicians who jumped on this are scumbags who are out to win sympathy votes.</p>
<p>You shouldn’t put on the limiter until you are able to reach the customer ?</p>
<p>Timmy, let me know the minute you see a Power company truck pulls up so I go to the back room while you tell him I am out. No see me no pay ha ha ha.</p>
<p>Liberals are beyond reasons!</p>
<p>If the man had any living relative, they should have been there for him. If a relative can’t pay the electric bill, don’t blame the electric company. Blame the family.</p>