A bit on salaries

Pre-Med & Medical School
21

<p>bumpbumpbump</p>

22

<p>bumpbumpbump</p>

23

<p>The geographics are ever so important. We have many physicians, excellent ones here in our area, the NYC area. But for the most part, physicians are not considered among the truly highly paid here since there are so many who make so much more. It was a whole different story in the Midwest where I used to live where doctors were treated as Gods and considered the top of the salary heap with very few exceptions.</p>

24

<p>Okay then in NYC</p>

<p>Another question: what do cardiologists really do? Salary in NYC? Are they surgeons or internal medicine doctor?</p>

<p>I really don’t know about this because I want to become a lawyer but I am considering internal medicine, what’s the highest paid specialty in internal medicine?(NYC)</p>

25

<p>What’s the highest paid specialty in internal medicine?(NYC)</p>

26

<p>bumpbumpbump</p>

27

<p>ahh, so your trying to figure out who you should specialize in suing?
..just kidding</p>

28

<p>the highest earning specialty is a neurosurgeon: those guys make an average of one million; im not even kidding, but it takes about 8-10 years after college to become a full time surgeon, and it is a lot of hardwork</p>

29

<p>8-10? Try 11 to 15.</p>

<p>And the average isn’t nearly a million.</p>

30

<p>It’s about $500,000 based on this chart. Which is good money, but not nearly a million.</p>

<p>[Salary.com</a> Salary Wizard™- Do you know what you’re worth?](<a href=“Personal Salary Reports and Small Business Compensation Solutions | Salary.com”>Personal Salary Reports and Small Business Compensation Solutions | Salary.com)</p>

31

<p>With the hours of training required to be a surgeon they deserve every bit of $500k a year…and most general surgeons don’t make near this kind of money anyways. Surgical fellowships are not for the faint of heart…very very alpha male…you better be a bad arse if you want to be a surgeon.</p>

32

<p>

</p>

<p>Cardiology. Don’t know about NYC but in most places it’s 400k+.</p>

33

<p>Wow. I was under the impression that plastic surgeons made the most $$$. Interesting.</p>

34

<p>Plastic Surgery is a separate specialty from Internal Medicine and thus was not an eligible answer. Turns out Ortho is the highest paid overall: [Medscape:</a> Medscape Access](<a href=“http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2011/]Medscape:”>http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2011/)</p>

35

<p>Apparently, most people value something else higher than $$$, since none of the above belong in the list of the most selective specialty, except for Plastics. I suppose that after you get into certain level of compensation, the other factors become valuable (like having time for your family)</p>

36

<p>Luckily I was curious myself, a comparison of specialties ranked by compensation or step 1 score</p>

<p>Salary

  1. Ortho
  2. IM/Peds Cardio
  3. Rads
  4. IM/Peds GI
  5. Uro
  6. Anesthesia
  7. Plastics
  8. Derm
  9. Surgery
  10. Rad-Onc
  11. Optho
  12. EM
  13. IM/EM - CC
  14. IM/Peds -Nephrology
  15. IM/Peds - Pulm
  16. Path
  17. OB/GYN
  18. Neuro
  19. IM/Peds - Rheum
  20. Psych
  21. IM
  22. IM/Peds - Endo
  23. FM
  24. Peds
  25. IM/Peds - ID
    [Medscape:</a> Medscape Access](<a href=“http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/public]Medscape:”>http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2013/public)</p>

<p>Step 1

  1. Plastics
  2. Derm
  3. ENT
  4. Rad-Onc
  5. Neurosurg
  6. Ortho
  7. Rads
  8. Med-Peds double
  9. Path
  10. IM
  11. Surgery
  12. Anesthesia
  13. Neurology
  14. EM
  15. Peds
  16. OB/GYN
  17. PM&R
  18. Psych
  19. FM
    <a href=“http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Smallest to largest differences for specialties on both lists
(Specialty rank - Step 1 rank. Meaning the lower the number/higher the rank, the more “overpaid” the specialty is compared to it’s step 1 score. It’s of course a little misleading since the IM/Pediatric specialties require fellowship training which is not factored into the step 1 score/residency competitiveness aspect)</p>

<ol>
<li>IM/Peds Cardio -10.5</li>
<li>IM/Peds GI -8.5</li>
<li>Anesthesia -6</li>
<li>Ortho -5</li>
<li>Rads -4</li>
<li>Surgery -2</li>
<li>EM -2</li>
<li>IM/EM - CC 1</li>
<li>OB/GYN 1</li>
<li>IM/Peds -Nephrology 1.5</li>
<li>Psych 2</li>
<li>IM/Peds - Pulm 2.5</li>
<li>FM 4</li>
<li>Neuro 5</li>
<li>Plastics 6</li>
<li>Derm 6</li>
<li>Rad-Onc 6</li>
<li>IM/Peds - Rheum 6.5</li>
<li>Path 7</li>
<li>Peds 9</li>
<li>IM/Peds - Endo 9.5</li>
<li>IM 11</li>
<li>IM/Peds - ID 12.5</li>
<li>Uro N/A</li>
<li>Optho N/A</li>
</ol>

<p>Can’t think of a good way to incorporate it (plus I have to get back to work) but here are the subspecialties ranked by %applicants matched</p>

<p>Adult Cardio: 65.6
Peds Cardio: 78.9</p>

<p>Adult GI: 59.1
Peds GI: 84.0</p>

<p>Adult Critical Care: 65.6
Surgical Critical care: 93.0
Peds Critical Care: 89.3</p>

<p>Adult Nephrology: 87.6
Peds Neprhology: 80.6</p>

<p>Adult Pulm: 22.9
Peds Pulm: 89.4</p>

<p>Adult Rheum: 66.2
Peds Rheum: 85.7</p>

<p>Adult Endo: 65.9
Peds Endo: 93.8</p>

<p>Adult ID: 93.8
Peds ID: 84.2
<a href=“http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddatasms2013.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddatasms2013.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

37

<p>Average salaries are very deceiving. </p>

<p>1) Especially with many more women in medicine, life-work balance plays a large role in salary (for example part-time or flex positions are more common in certain specialties). </p>

<p>2) For physicians working independently, there is much the same variability as a small business…what is the margin, how much equipment, capital investment, space, employees are involved. For example, large allergy practices with a physician figure head and involving multiple mid-level providers is usually extremely profitable.</p>

<p>The easiest comparison is probably salaries for newly trained physicians of various specialties employed full time by large health systems. That information is generally available, and does show higher incomes for the more procedure based specialties (surgical subspecialties, interventional GI, radiology and cards).</p>

<p>But honestly, there is a lot more than salary driving decisions about specialty choices. Although generalizations, and there are always exceptions, there are certain features of specialties that appeal to different people. Many people choose ER or hospitalist positions because the shift work and geographic flexibility gives them opportunities to pursue another personal interest (art, music, backpacking, international volunteering). Family practice and pediatrics are more popular in individuals who choose more rural practice locations, and like the idea of stable community and “small town” living. Pathologists and radiologists usually do not have long-term personal relationships with patients. Surgeons like active approaches to problems, intensivists like complex problem solving, orthopods - sports minded, and plastic surgeons - attractive and charming. </p>

<p>One of the best aspects of medicine is how many different choices there are, even within specialties, to be more or less academic for example. And priorities often change over the course of one’s career. Changing specialties happens too.</p>

38

<p>There are now caveats

  • concierge docs (family medicine or IM) are toward the top
  • cosmetic (ie cash, no insurance) plastic surgeons are higher than orthopedistsq
  • invasive radiologist
  • burn surgeons (skin graphs pay very well)
  • whether (and %) you take Medicare
  • invasive radiologists (now shared with invasive cardiologists, etc)</p>

<p>What has not been talked about is private vs academics
An academic surgeons gross pay is a lot lower than that of a surgeon in private practice - but if you look at NET pay, the academic may come out on top
(No over-head (office, nurses, office staff, insurance for all), no malpractice, paid vacation, retirement pay…)</p>

39

<p>Doctors make a lot (but go through a long and challenging path + debt for it). The average (mid-career) salary out of even the most selective and best colleges is only around 110-130K, say the top 5 colleges with about 7000 students per class total. This is harder to get into than med school (admit rate about 8% versus 40% and 20000 seats for medical school) yet the average compensation is less than even the worst specialty earns.
But it takes a lot of effort and you waste your prime years to become a doctor so don’t go in it for just the money, I thuja anyone who’s been through the process knows you won’t last. Also seeing how physician salaries (and medical expenditures to an even greater degree) are inflated in the US (2x higher salary than anywhere else I believe), by the time you finish residency it could be less lucrative than it is now; it already has got worse than it was in the 90’s.</p>

40

<p>Compensation has changed quite a bit in the last few years.
One newly retired radiologist told me he made about the same last year as during his first year of practise.
Compensation for cardiologists has taken a huge drop because reading echocardiograms fees have been reduced >50% as well as other procedures.</p>