<p>Lets remember that when I posted the OP I wasn’t so much referring to the actual legal punishments being too harsh (although they oftentimes are and sometimes particularly for the wealthy too easy) but about the extreme punishment from society not only for DUIs but for other minor crimes.</p>
<p>
Now that’s an offense that needs more severe punishment. I hate how hardly anyone uses a turn signal anymore - a bunch of lazy inconsiderate people, often self-absorbed with their cell phone or eating, driving dangerously. I think it’s great that they’d get pulled over but from what I’ve seen, very few people ever get pulled over for this.</p>
<p>I’ve only been checked for drunk driving once. I was working in the middle of the night and driving home around 2 or 3 am. I was pulled over for possibly going somewhat over the speed limit (an empty road) and the the cop asked me details about where I was coming from, why I was driving at that time of night, checked my eyes, and I’m sure was seeing if he noticed the smell of alcohol. He ended up just letting me go but he gave me some good advice/info - at that time of night there are 3 main groups of people active - people like me working unusual hours, people who are coming back from bars, and cops - i.e. be careful when driving that time of night due to the drunks and the cops.</p>
<p>Seriously, my W’s best friend in college was killed by a drunk driver. It’s a serious act and deserves serious ramifications. No one ‘needs’ to drink and drive. People shouldn’t be trying to second guess just what their B/A content might be (“hmm, so I’m a 180 lb male, had a couple of drinks 3 hours ago with dinner, ate pasta and a piece of bread, drank a cup of coffee, but then had another drink just now, I feel okay, not falling down drunk, therefore I might be okay, so I’ll go for it” or “hmm, I’m a 110 lb female and didn’t drink any more than that guy, who seems fine, so I s/b okay to drive”). </p>
<p>On the plus side - I’ve known people who received a DUI who completely changed their behavior - they didn’t give up drinking but they’d never drive after drinking - either not drink alcohol when out or make sure they had a designated driver. Unfortunately - I’ve also known people who didn’t change their habits despite more severe eventual consequences after getting a second or more DUI (losing the license for a long time, being in jail for a fairly long time, etc.).</p>
<p>In a lot of areas the ‘punishment’ for a first time DUI that didn’t result in an accident or injury really isn’t that bad. It’s often reduced, they have to take an alcohol education course, pay a not hefty enough fine, and can still drive. If their car insurance goes up (which is likely) it’s because they clearly are a bigger risk in the eyes of the insurance company. That’s supply and demand and should be expected. As far as employment goes, I’m not sure that a large number of companies wouldn’t continue to employ someone just due to having gotten a DUI. I’m not sure how many companies wouldn’t hire someone with a DUI on the record either - especially if it was a long time ago.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can argue that all people have the same level of impairment at .08. It is possible for one to have no impairment and the other to be significantly impaired. Also, the machines are not necessarily accurate. The readings can vary based on the officer’s skill with administering the test and other factors like acid reflux, mouthwash, gum disease, etc. Test results can vary by as much as 15%.</p>
<p>Cite for someone having no impairment at .08, please?</p>
<p>I don’t know about other states, but in California, the penalties and fines for a first-time DUI are very severe. In some cases they are well-deserved, in others it may not be warranted. </p>
<p>I don’t want people to drink and drive, but I also don’t want people to be unfairly unpunished for crimes they didn’t commit.</p>
<p>
I disagree - I don’t think they’re generally severe at all. What are the penalties for a first-time DUI in the state of California that you think are ‘severe’?</p>
<p>Today, most prosecutors overcharge defendants in order to get them to plead to lessor charges. That’s why you hear about people getting charged with 65 counts of wire fraud, racketeering or embezzlement, when they may have committed only one crime. Usually these charges add up to hundreds of years of prison time. Prosecutor can abuse the process to get a conviction. This is an elective office, where prosecutorial decisions are sometimes made for political reasons.</p>
<p>[California</a> DUI | Drunk Driving Laws, Penalties, Fines & SR22 | DrivingLaws.org](<a href=“http://dui.drivinglaws.org/california.php]California”>http://dui.drivinglaws.org/california.php)</p>
<p>Don’t forget to add thousands of dollars of legal fees.</p>
<p>Severe? That seems appropriate and not overly severe to me, and you don’t have to pay a penny in legal fees if you don’t contest the charges.</p>
<p>“Mini, you studied this stuff. Do you know if there’s any correlation between tough DUI laws and reduced drunk driving incidents.”</p>
<p>In a word, yes, but it is complicated. A combination of safer cars, tougher laws, better enforcement, and better roads have significantly reduced “DUI” fatalities per mile driven for the past 20 years. In our state, DUI fatalities from drugs (90% being prescription opiates or benzos) now exceed pure alcohol ones. Incidents are also down - some of that may also be the economy, as there is less “recreational driving”. </p>
<p>As a general rule, swift and sure enforcement/punishment has greater impacts than “tougher” penalties. Which is one of the reasons our state moved just about everyone to alcohol school, in lieu of going to court. Record may be expunged, but it is going to cost you going to school, and paying for it. Prosecutors love it, as it gets the cases off the dockets, and all the gameplaying that goes into other pleas.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m not quite sure what distinction you’re making here about severe penalties being “well-deserved” or not, but ANY drunk driver can kill. Prior offenses hardly matter to the person who’s just been t-boned by the drunk driver’s car.</p>
<p>Drunk drivers should expect severe penalties. If they don’t want to incur them, they can designate a driver or take a cab home. It’s not complicated.</p>
<p>If anyone thinks penalties are too harsh for a misdemeanor dui, see what happens when you throw a serious injury or death to another into the equation. In Florida a felony dui can land you in prison for many, many years in a state prison. Too, good luck getting a job with a past dui felony conviction. </p>
<p>Don’t drink and drive!</p>
<p>Goldenpooch:</p>
<p>From your article -
Apparently this plea bargain happens quite a bit. This is what I meant when I said the penalties aren’t generally harsh for a first time offender with no accident/injury involved but even the penalties for the non-plea bargain aren’t that harsh or ‘severe’ IMO given the potential ramifications to other people by knowingly driving while impaired.</p>
<p>Another source for a typical plea bargain if the BAC isn’t extra high, no kids in the car, and no accident/injury (I’ve seen the similar plea deal remarks on several other web sites) -
<a href=“DUI: plea bargain or jury trial - Los Angeles DUI Attorney”>DUI: plea bargain or jury trial - Los Angeles DUI Attorney;
<p>Yes, GladGrad, you’re right that these charges can be reduced, but it isn’t going to happen unless you have an experienced and expensive attorney.</p>
<p>
I’m not sure that’s true either. A public defender, which is free (I think), can potentially do the same thing. How it really works out - I don’t know.</p>
<p>I’m assuming a lot of this is fairly boilerplate and rote given a particular set of circumstances (such as first time, not too high BAC, no accident/injury, no kids in the car) - I wouldn’t think a huge amount of time is really spent on it by the DA/Judge/Court. But I could be wrong.</p>
<p>I want to add that I think in some cases, longer sentences are appropriate. For example, for decades female teachers that committed statutory rape were getting off with probation. At least now it seems like some are going to prison. However, oftentimes the sentences are still too light as these women usually just marry a guy and don’t ever have to work again. They don’t face any punishment from society after (i.e. job loss) since they don’t have to work. Call me sexist but a woman can be fat, ugly, have a horrible personality, etc. but she can always find a guy to take care of her. Unless a guy is rich, has a fancy job and is good looking, he has very limited options. </p>
<p>Also, it seems like juries don’t buy rape claims without evidence as much after we’ve seen so much evidence (i.e. Brian Banks, duke lacrosse, etc.) of how many women lie.</p>
<p>Im not saying rape doesn’t go unreported but the numbers are oftentimes exaggerated by using a definition so broad almost any sex would be considered rape. </p>
<p>Also, women would actually face less sexism if they didn’t always claim they were the victims of everything. I’m not saying all women do but those that do tend to have the loudest voices in the media. For example there were a bunch of articles on sexism at HBS but only one (in Forbes I believe) defending HBS.</p>
<p>Actually reaching the CA limit of 0.08 is really easy. According to a BAC calculator, my blood alcohol with 2 glasses of wine over a 2 hour dinner would be .085% because I am under 100lb. However, a person at 120lbs, he would be at 0.075%. </p>
<p>I am a non drinker but I have seen many couples polishing more than one bottle of wine at dinner. If there’s a roadblock checkpoint (common in CA during the holidays) when they exit the restaurant, I am sure they will be convicted.</p>
<p>I want to add 1 more thing. I have lots of female friends that can’t stand the “I am always the victim” mentality of SOME women. Unfortunately, the media tends not to pay much attention to these women or their views.</p>
<p>
Unfortunately, having one’s mental faculties and coordination being impaired due to the alcohol is easy to reach as well.</p>
<p>If you are charged with a DUI, the second mistake you will have made is if you elect to go through the process without an attorney. That would not be a wise decision.</p>