<p>From reading the Penn website, it seems pretty clear that it’s the former – of the valedictorians who applied, 47% were accepted.</p>
<p>Iderochi, that’s how I read it also.</p>
<p>Here’s my story re: SAT scores for son number two. He took the SAT’s, well, way back in 1996 I suppose. He got at that time as a junior V600 M800. 1400 combined. Applied to PENN, amongst others, RPI, CMU, Lehigh, as an engineering major. Rank: 10th in the class of a small HS graduating class of 105. So rank wasn’t great. But had an interview with a college rep from PENN…his list of extra-curriculars filled two pages!! He was a class officer, played first trombone on the band, worked in the church rectory since he was 14 yrs old, was captain of the wrestling team, president of the math club, spent a summer in Japan as the representative of the HS with scholarship, an officer in the Italian Club, and won the RPI Award and Math award in his Junior Year and attended the CTY summer programs three years in a row. The interviewer said to him…now I see why you are only ranked tenth in the class. How did you fit all this in? My son said he NEVER studied as he just didn’t have the time. He was accepted to PENN! Moral of the story…they are looking not for just the bookworms, but those that can add something to their campus life…those that demonstrate that there is more to life than studying in your dorm room. Every campus has those! He did graduate from PENN and still lives and works there. So engrossed in campus and fraternity life that he hasn’t left!!! He has been in W Philly since 1997.</p>
<p>Well, it certainly wouldn’t be the first time I misinterpreted data. I do agree with Cangel, however, that it would be good to know about the stats for combined criteria, and not just combined SAT scores. That might be a bit less discouraging. There could be valedictorians from less competitive high schools who have relatively low SAT scores, valedictorians who have no EC’s because they do nothing but study and earn good grades, and kids with high SAT scores (even possibly combined) who don’t apply themselves in the classroom.</p>
<p>WarblersRule’s data is helpful, because those links at least give combined SAT scores. I think (based on my limited experience of 1) that a student with solid SATs, a top 5% class rank, and a high GPA (straight As or near so in a rigorous curriculum) has a much better than 1 in 4 chance of being accepted at any of the most selective universities in the country - with the big exceptions of HYPS, probably MIT and Caltech, with those universities looking for hooks (whatever that may be) or in the case of M and Caltech demonstrated strength in science and math.</p>
<p>Now before I get shot down or dismissed as just stupid - I didn’t say that this hypothetical student would get into all the schools s/he applied to, or even into the one that s/he really wants to attend. The uncertainty is still there, even if the chances are 50-50 (which I think is a reasonable, conservative estimate for my hypothetical student). In that 50% who aren’t admitted, we will find students with suspensions, those with one or two poor grades, those who have not chosen lists wisely, those from overrepresented areas of the country (sorry guys, I can build a case for geography being a powerful hook for the otherwise unhook-ed), those who are admitted to all but one school seemingly selected at random, and, unfortunately a rare few who strike out altogether. That is why the safeties are the most important schools on the list.</p>
<p>ADDed: Take that stat of 47% of vals admitted to Penn - that is close to my 50% rule without knowing anything else about those students. Think of all the different ranking/grading situations we have read about on this forum, with some schools have 20 vals, and some schools never having a val from the most rigorous curriculum, because there is no weighting of classes. Do you think that it is possible that if your student is val at a school where that status “means something”, that his chances at Penn are 50-50? My guess is that a val with a rigorous courseload has a better than 50-50 chance (but not 100%, Curmudge, remember those safeties and hold them close to your heart) at Penn, but predicting who will be the 1 in 4 to fall short requires much more knowledge of the process than we will ever have.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that the designation “valedictorian” isn’t as cut and dried as it used to be. There are high schools that have dozens of valedictorians: everyone with all As, everyone about a certain GPA, everyone making high honor roll for four years, etc.</p>
<p>On the other end of the scale, there are some high schools (many of the national preps, NYC exam schools, etc.) where a class rank in the top 10% of the class is a very impressive accomplishment.</p>
<p>AGAIN, i reiterate. You are putting TOOOOOO much emphasis on SAT scores and class ranking. We are talking about the WHOLE kid!!!, the whole package. Someone selected my schleppy son with the mediocre SAT scores and class ranking into a prestigious IVY university!!! and he prolly beat out a 1600 SAT’er. EC’s are VERY VERY important…they define the kid…</p>