@Hanna, I want to see the actions decreased. That’s the guy fondling in the UC case. That’s an action.
The Canada experiment deals with reactions to the actions. I want the reactions to be better but I would like to see fewer actions. So a woman is going to yell and scream and say no after she is grabbed? I don’t want her grabbed in the first place.
If we read the NY Times article on Canada’s experiment, people who work in this field agree with me. Actually, I agree with them.
The Canada experiment saw rapes down 50 percent and attempted rapes down 60+ percent. Those are great numbers but…5 percent of the woman who participated were still raped and an additional 3.4 suffered from attempted rapes.
We aren’t getting to zero rapes. Not going to happen. But if we deal with the guys, the guys who commit the actions, maybe we won’t need so many reactions.
I read your post in the hazing thread. You didn’t want to be touched inappropriately. The guy was a jack@@@. That crap shouldn’t be tolerated.
I posted that UC Berkeley link. I think that was the weakest case of the three. He shouldn’t have touched her @@@. She should have expressed her displeasure.
Help may well come. It also may well not—in our culture a door to someone’s bedroom is a very hard barrier to cross, even if one feels it would be best to do so. This is one reason bystander education is important.
“This is a lot of complaints for 1 school, isn’t it?”
I’m the first person to say that schools are botching the way they handle every Title IX problem – good accusations and bad. I view that, sadly, as a separate issue from the fact that some of the complaints are particularly easy to fix with victim-side changes.
“I read your post in the hazing thread. You didn’t want to be touched inappropriately. The guy was a jack@@@. That crap shouldn’t be tolerated.”
Are you sure this was my post? I complained about people pressuring me to submit to hazing, but that happened at Bryn Mawr – no guys and no inappropriate touching as part of the problem.
Oh yes! That was post graduation, in a lawyers’ theater production! What an ass. It was inexcusable that they kept casting him when they knew this was a pattern.
That said, he was a stranger, and a middle-aged stranger at that. I didn’t even know his name. I didn’t climb into bed with him and our other close teenage friends. A massage in those circumstances is very different IMHO. I found myself in lots of crash-pad cuddles as an undergrad, and had no problem setting limits when it happened.
The Berkeley case is a tough case. It is a tough case for me because I did a similar thing to my wife before we were married. Before we were boyfriend and girl friend. We were good friends but we weren’t sexually involved. My wife knew we were going to get married. I had no idea. We were on a camping trip And I gave her a ‘massage’. We did move in together 7 weeks later.
The Berkeley guy did not rape this girl. I have to reread the case. I thought he touched other women inappropriately also.
But I think a loud “RAPE RAPE RAPE” is going to suffice pretty often even without any training. A loud “RAPE RAPE RAPE” also likely stops the guy cold many times, so no help will even be needed.
If gals are effectively trained to scream rape loudly, the super-majority of these do not occur. Even if you don’t train bystanders (which we should do as well). In many cases, you don’t even need bystanders to prevent the rape from happening.
Every female freshman college student in the country (and such student’s parents) should be at DEFCON 1 every weekend from now through Thanksgiving. After then, the risks decline substantially.
There’s a reason this time of year is called the “red zone.”
Man, I thought this thread had whittled away and died. For those of you who are interested in a bit more of a critical look at the surveys and data underlying these numbers, the magazine Reason has done a series of articles recently on this topic. I know that many of you will discount what Reason publishes because it is libertarian leaning as opposed to progressive leaning, but for those with an open mind, this series presents some interesting reading.
If I had a daughter who was heading off to college, rather than putting her on “DEFCON 1” I would be talking to her about ways to nurture herself through the loneliness of being away from home and the stress and challenges of college. And we’d talk about the circumstances that can be dangerous - like getting too drunk or getting too familiar too quickly with a stranger no matter how nice seeming or attractive. Hopefully we would have talked about and practiced assertiveness, physical defense and situation awareness for years before this moment.
The UofM case w/Drew Sterrett was settled out of court in favor of Drew Sterrett not surprisingly, hopefully this is getting near the end of the crazy madness of 2012 and 2013 and the unis are going to be more rational and thoughtful and are turning more to legal investigation. http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/u-m_agrees_to_nullify_findings.html
