Women may well care more about this issue than men, but women’s response rate is much bigger than men’s even for campus climate surveys that are not specifically about rape.
I am not a rape denier and I do believe even one rape is too many. However, I still question the 1 in 5 statistic.
here is the link to the Penn study
http://www.upenn.edu/ir/surveys/AAU/Report%20and%20Tables%20on%20AAU%20Campus%20Climate%20Survey.pdf
on page 193 there is table 4.4.
In the first section females are divided by sexual orientation-- heterosexual or non-heterosexual.
Assault is broken down into penetration or sexual touching. Sexual touching includes kissing or touching a sexual area even if clothed, ie hand on butt over jeans.
Of note- most positive reports are in the non-heterosexual group. This group reports assault nearly 2 1/2 times that of the heterosexual group. The report never gives the percentage of students who identify into this group. I think its high–maybe almost 40 percent–because otherwise they cant conclude the number of sexual assaults that are claimed. Also the report never mentions whom is assaulting this group-women or men.
The female heterosexual group reporting penetration, is 4.1 percent among undergraduates and 1.2 percent among graduate students.
Only 26 percent of students in the school completed at least a substantial enough portion of the study to be included into the results.
“Waiting for the rape denial posters to come back.”
If you want to skeptically poke holes, there’s plenty to poke at in this study. If you believe there’s an epidemic, there’s plenty of data you can point to support that view. I’m not interested in that tiresome conversation.
Seems to me like this study would be better used as a baseline. Repeat it again (apples to apples with all faults) in a couple of years and see if the numbers are moving in a good or bad way.
Let’s see if the most committed and enthusiastic Title IX/Dear Colleague prosecution schools move the needle much.
Let’s also see if schools prioritizing Canada style prevention have positive impacts.
Using the numbers from Tables 3.1, 12% of all undergraduate women respondents say they’ve experienced non-consensual penetration by force or incapacitation. Broken down by sexual orientation, 18.3% of lesbian women and 9.3% of straight women say they’ve experienced non-consensual penetration by force or incapacitation. If my algebra is right, that means 30% of the undergraduate women respondents said they are lesbians.
But it also means that almost 10% of straight women respondents say they’ve experienced non-consensual penetration by force or incapacitation.
Table 4.4 and all the other tables 4.x are about non-consensual sex by coercion or absence of ongoing voluntary consent. I presume that includes the forced or incapacitated sex from Tables 3.x.
But 33% of female undergraduates completed the survey. And that’s the group we most often discuss here.
I read this differently. In 3.1 they do no not separate heterosexual or non-heterosexual. They separate out only out the transgender. The 12 percent includes both heterosexual and non-heterosexual. That is why I think the number of non-heterosexual must be high.
Also the non-heterosexual women may be bisexual or homosexual.
Who are the rape denial posters? I have never seen anyone on the board deny that there is a troubling amount of sexual assault among young people, though I can’t claim to have read every post.
I see that I read Table 3.2 wrong. Really wrong. Completely wrong. Let me try this again, and see what numbers I come up with.
Table 3.1a, Percent of Undergraduate Female Students Experiencing Nonconsensual
Penetration or Sexual Touching Involving Physical Force or Incapacitation Since Entering College: 27.2
Table 3.2, Percent of Undergraduate Female Heterosexual Women Experiencing Nonconsensual Penetration or Sexual Touching Involving Physical Force or Incapacitation: 26.2
Table 3.2, Percent of Undergraduate Female Non-Heterosexual Women Experiencing Nonconsensual Penetration or Sexual Touching Involving Physical Force or Incapacitation: 37.1
Just eyeballing the numbers we see that 26.2% and 27.2% are close, so most of the female undergraduates said they were straight. But do the algebra: about 90.8% of the female undergraduates said they were straight. Check it out, by looking at the weighted average:
(26.2 * 0.908) + (37.1 * 0.092) = 27.2
Yep, it checks out. And it makes the survey look a lot more representative. Ninety-one percent of the women say they’re exclusively heterosexual? Yeah, that sounds reasonable.
[As an aside, I don’t like the way they divide up gender identity:
Which best describes your gender identity?
Woman
Man
Transgender woman
Transgender man
Genderqueer or gender non-conforming
Questioning
Not listed
Decline to state
Trans women are women. Trans men are men.]
I’m sorry. Where did you get the 27.2 figure?
And you are right. Table 3.2 is about physical force or incapacitation. Table 4.2 discusses only lack of affirmative consent- not the others- and that is why the numbers are so low.
Can you find anywhere that they separate out the numbers of penetration versus sexual touching, and also differentiate the groups by sexual orientation?
First line, fifth box in Table 3.1a on page 148.
I don’t see that breakdown.
Yes, but they presumably wanted to find out if there are any differences between trans and non-trans people.
I’m not sure if you guys saw this new report… Apparently the numbers are actually higher http://www.vice.com/read/national-survey-finds-more-than-one-in-five-college-women-have-been-sexually-assaulted-921?utm_source=vicefbus
Some trans people, as I understand it, identify as trans people and don’t wish to be subsumed into the mass of cis people.
Of course, but they can do that without saying that trans women aren’t women, just like they look at the differences between straight women and lesbians without saying lesbians aren’t women. Hanna says that some trans women don’t want to be called women and some trans men don’t want to be called men. That might be right-- I don’t like to doubt you, Hanna, because you’re usually reliable-- but I thought the whole point of being a trans woman is to be a woman.
The list said “trans woman” and “woman,” not “trans woman” and “cis woman.” So if a trans woman identifies as a woman, full stop, and wants to check that box, she can. Neither one is false; she can pick.
But why should she have to choose? She is both trans and a woman, but she can’t pick both “transgender woman” and “woman” both, even though both are true.
It’d be as if a list included “redhead,” “man,” and “woman” and you had to pick one.
Isn’t the analogy more like “redhead - natural hair color” versus “redhead - through use of hair dye”?
And whoever is doing the study would net woman and transgender woman under the broader category of woman, so she’d still be counted as a woman.
Who knows what software they used and whether it allowed for multiple selections…I would give them the benefit of the doubt on this.
@Hanna About 10 pages back it was all about how the 1 in 5 number, despite being in the ballpark for repeated studies, has to be a false result because of the much lower numbers in the DOJ study.
This from northwesty:
This, to me, denies about 95% of the reported rapes. The latest study reinforces the “1 in 5” estimate that northwesty, awcntb, momof3boys and a few others all felt was blown way out of proportion.