Do you have any evidence of this? Have rape reports from college women diminished in the wake of the Dear Colleague letter? I would have expected the opposite, that women, able to first report to a sympathetic person at the college, would then find the strength to go to the police.
"The college hearing process could then be integrated with law enforcement. The new university procedures offer college rape victims an appealing alternative to filing a complaint with the police. According to a recent New York Times article, a “great majority” of college students now choose to report incidents of assault to their school, not the police, because of anonymity and other perceived advantages.
But the danger is obvious. University proceedings may be exacerbating the fundamental problem: the fact that almost no college rapists are criminally punished — which they will never be if the crimes are never reported to the police. Nationwide, the Department of Justice states that about 35 percent of rapes and sexual assaults were reported to the police in 2013. That’s not enough, but it’s a lot better than the 5 percent reported by college women."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/opinion/sunday/mishandling-rape.html?_r=0
Sloppy, sloppy, @northwesty. I’m not asking for the ratio of college rape reports to police rape reports. I’m asking the ratio of police rape reports (from college students) now to police rape reports from before the Dear Colleague letter. College women don’t report their rapes to police now, but they also didn’t report their rapes to police before, and non-college women also don’t report their rapes to police. You have given me no reason to believe that the college reporting system is “draining away” police reports that otherwise would exist.
Well DOJ tells us that college women report less often to the police than non-student women of the same age. But this is for the entire period 1995-2013.
But we know you don’t like this study. It’s the one that shows the 50+% incidence drops over tha period. And also that college women have lower risk than non-college women of the same age.
You know I hate the DOJ study, but if it happens to be right that since 1995, college women have reported their rapes to police less often than non-college women, that still hardly demonstrates that reporting has diminished since the Dear Colleague letter. And the DOJ numbers aren’t going to be precise enough to show a change since the Dear Colleague letter; even if you believe their numbers (which I do not) they are just too small and too uncertain to detect a change like that.
Only accusers who are making it all up will be “chilled away” by the cops - like UVA Jackie and mattress girl.
That’s such nonsense, JohnDoe. I’ve told this story before, but I know of a case where a drunk athlete was at a party, noticed a beautiful freshman woman leaving, and tried to go after her, saying, “I’m going to get some of that.” He was stopped by his teammates. His teammates were so worried that he would later assault her that one of them went to her room (in her room or just outside, I’m not sure) to protect her in the event that the rapist returned. He did, and attempted to rape her, but was stopped by the good Samaritan teammate. There was absolutely no doubt about what this guy did. The young woman, who was an international from a conservative culture, refused to press charges, even though there were witnesses (I know one of them), who were all in complete agreement. She wasn’t making it up. The college threw him out, but not before months of his parents and their lawyers attempting to keep him at the school.
Plenty of women are raped and don’t want to report to the police, and anyone who denies this is not acting in good faith. There are women right here on CC who were raped and couldn’t face reporting it. You know women who were raped and didn’t report it; they just haven’t told you.
If you want rapists to be punished, wouldn’t you want mandatory reporting in such cases where women don’t report to the cops? Or do you want the rapists to get away? Who are you protecting here?
By the way, 100% of men that you know have been raped. They just never told you. Yes, I am making that up with not a shred of evidence to back it. But so did you.
@Cardinal Fang I remember you telling this story before and I thought I remembered you saying that the good Samaritan was waiting in/at/near the girl’s room and that they stopped the athlete before he got into the room. I have no doubt that he may very well have intended to rape her, but if he simply said he was “going to get some” and then followed her to her dorm, that is not illegal. He might have been cocky enough to think that just by talking to him she would succumb to his charms.
Fang – The Clery Act data shows that incident reports to colleges are up quite significantly in the past several years since Dear Colleague came out. Most believe that is due to an increase in reporting rather than an increase in incidents.
Given all the pending legislative proposals around the country that would require colleges to report to police, it would seem that people do not believe that there has been a similar increase in reports to police. Many commentators also make this point. In fact some say that the college procedures themselves suppress police reports – schools actively discourage police reporting (to avoid bad press) under the guise of being sensitive to victim concerns.
What about intent? Can’t a man be accused of rape because he intended to rape? Can’t he be thrown out of campus just to make the campus a safer place for women? It’s our daughters that we are talking about here.
OTOH, if a woman gets totally trashed and then sneaks out over and over again despite her friends’ best efforts to keep her away from her intended party to have sex with, she is not a rapist. She is a victim if her intended party indeed has sex with her. (This is actually a real case when the guy got kicked out. So much for caring for our sons who should know better to protect a woman’s chastity when she is drunk.)
This is because college men are adults, but college women are infants. Are you with me, Cardinal Fang?
Still no good, @northwesty. You said that the Dear Colleague reforms were “draining” away police reports. If you think that the incidence of rape at college has remained unchanged, and the reporting level of rape at college has also remained unchanged, then there is no draining taking place. By your own claims, an increase in reporting to college has not been accompanied by a decrease in reporting to the police.
Try again. This time, produce claims that, if true, would substantiate your claim that college reporting systems in the wake of the Dear Colleague letter are “draining” police reports. Hint: in order to do this, you have to show either that the base level of rape is increasing at college (which you say you don’t think is true; neither do I) or that the number of rape reports to the police from college students is decreasing.
A guy can be accused of attempted rape, a crime, if he attempts to rape. Ohiodad can correct me on this, but I believe legally what is needed to prove attempted rape is an intent to rape (which he said he had) and an action in furtherance of the intent (trying to break into her room).
JohnDoe4 - You seem like you have a lot of anger issues, but that’s between you and your therapist.
Regardless, I assume you are capable of expressing yourself with maturity and without needlessly stooping to personal remarks. Do so.
Al2simon, Did you just stoop to making a personal remark!?
YES, but not needlessly 
Ah! Now I understand. Thank you for clarifying that. I feel better now.
@“Cardinal Fang” yes, and speaking under correction from any of the criminal guys here, generally an attempt crime is proven by the mental intention of doing the act coupled with a serious action designed to carry out the intent. I doubt though that saying I am going to get me some and then following a girl to her room, on their own, would be enough. However, it sounds like a lot more was going on than that if his teammates had to jump in to stop him initially and then one of them went to stand guard at her door. That would at least indicate that some of the people who knew him best felt he had done enough that they were worried he would actually make the attempt. Now would someone get charged in that circumstance? Under the beyond a reasonable doubt standard, probably not. In a college tribunal, under the preponderance standard? Maybe.
I don’t remember the details of the incident, but I’m pretty sure he ended up in the woman’s room while she was sleeping, by breaking in or something. He may even have been pulled off her. At any rate, AFAIK, the people who knew about the incident thought that if the case were brought to the police, he’d be arrested. But the young woman refused to press charges.
And score one for athletic coaches. The coach was in frequent contact with the captains of the team. When the athlete showed up for practice the next day, the coach told him he was no longer welcome on the team.
What if it is a woman doing that? Getting trashed, following a guy to his room, ignoring friends who are trying to pull her back to her room, sneaking out again, and ultimately succeeding in getting into the guy’s room and having sex?
In a real case like the above the guy was expelled for raping this woman, while the woman was called a victim. This shows the deeply ingrained sexism in contemporary society.