A simple rejection - or almost 40 of them - is not the end of the world

Applying to College
41

@KatherynP

Yes, it would be nice if the school would just tell you what they want. Give students an OBJECTIVE standard to judge their chances against. There are schools that do this: meet these standards and you are “in”.

But what about the top schools where 80% of kids applying would meet that standard, even if the standard was perfection (2400/4.0/36). They would end up with 10x the number of kids they could accept. And become less selective simply by not being “subjective”. The numbers require that mysterious subjectivity, otherwise they would have to accept way too many kids. Even if they told you what the soft requirements were, I’m not sure it would change anything for applicants. They would still be in the dark.

There are just way too many “perfect” kids applying…and this will be the first harsh reality for many kids. I worry about my high performing S when he gets rejected over and over…

It is a sad reality that being “perfect” objectively is rarely good enough. But you will find when interviewing for jobs, it is like that as well. You can be perfect on paper, and lose out to someone “lesser”. It is very subjective because they are looking for a good fit above all else bc they have the luxury of choosing among candidates that are “perfect enough”.

So if I had any advice, it would be for kids to focus on where they think THEY “fit” best, because that is where they have the best shot. And then try to work that “fit” explanation into the app as often as possible. Sell yourself specifically. What can you add to that Univ and why?

It is a tough time, and all those rejects and unaffordable accepts must be very brutal…you’ll come out stronger, especially after the second round!

One tip, the “common data sets” will tell you where the school gives aid, and if that extends to international, and what an avg award looks like in that category. They also show if a school gives emphasis to the soft parts of the app, ie, essays, interviews, nationality, etc, the “fit” parts. Some put low emphasis on these. And they give a pretty good picture of the scores that have a “chance”.

Good luck.

PS, I’m confused… @DarkEclipse is not the OP, right?

42

@DarkEclipse You asked us to compare UIUC and UF websites and you said that UIUC is straightforward. I don’t see that. I don’t see where UIUC states the cutoff GPA and test scores. Of course the GPA and test scores are important but no school tell you not to apply because schools like Harvard, Stanford do admit students with GPA below 3.0/4.0 or SAT score below 2000.

http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2013-14.pdf

43

Cont. - You also said UCB is straightforward but it’s not.

“most” does not mean all. “predicted” does not mean required. UCB also accepted GPA below 3.0 and SAT sections below 500.

http://opa.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/uc_berkeley_cds_2014-15_april.pdf

44

@HRSMom No, I’m not.

@coolweather Hmmm…that’s strange. I seem to recall UIUC had something like that. They changed the website now, so if it wasn’t there before, then I’m sorry.

I will agree with this to some extent. I once saw a girl who was admitted into Yale with a 1750 SAT score. However, she had to make up for it a lot in other places. But I still maintain as to what I’ve said in post #39. Yes, there can be outliers. But that number is so small, contrasting to many 3.8+ GPAs and 2000+ SATs.

45

@coolweather On UC Berkeley:
Predicted means what we are predicted to receive on the actual exams (A levels). I used UC Berkeley as a context for international students.
quote

[/quote]

From the website. http://admissions.berkeley.edu/internationalrequirements

I also said this:

Low chance = some chance.

I suggest you Google A level predicted grades (I’m not being sarcastic, nor am I joking). It’s actually quite serious for us. Those are submitted by the schools after thorough evaluation.

46

@DarkEclipse

That’s so they can hide behind the fig leaf called “holistic admissions” and do whatever the heck they want, as long as it isn’t illegal, I’ve already told u these schools are private clubs. Why is that so difficult to understand?

If u are so upset about the arbitrariness of these schools’ admissions process, then simply vote with your feet. Move on.

47

I agree with post#45, there is a hole and not whole in holistic admissions. Colleges want to be vague but pretend to be straight forward.

48

@GMTplus7 I already have moved on. I only stated my opinion early on in this thread. I have no clue as to how I ended up arguing with two people.

49

@DarkEclipse ,

Let me begin by saying I’m no expert. I’ve taught for a bajillion years (I’m the one who taught Noah to count the animals 2 by 2.) But my 16 year old son is the first of my kids to be old enough to apply to college, so I’m learning as I go.

I think the problem may be that the details of what they require probably change from one year to the next.

There’s a bizarre thing in education: sometimes an entire class comes off as spectacular, and then the next year, or the year after that, they’re…let’s just say “not as strong.” And it will be across the board-- in my school and my husband’s and my friend’s. Some years there’s simply a far better pool of applicants than others.

So by being intentionally vague, the schools are able to draw the strongest applicant pool each year, even though a kid who makes it this year might not have had a chance last year. The colleges need to fill their seats. And they want the strongest, most versatile student population they can get. But exactly what that means is bound to differ from one year to the next.

By keeping it vague, they give themselves lots of wiggle room.

50

@bjkmom I think I understand. Thanks for clearing it up (and love the ‘Noah’ reference).

51

Post #48, I agree with the last sentence regarding wiggle room.

52

All of us might say that we want life partners who are kind, empathetic, generous, patient, and with great senses of humor. A hefty bank account and smokin’-hot looks will often override those factors, in the short run, however, while most of us will end up with partners who are quite different from the ideals we defined. That’s life. It seldom breaks down into neat, orderly, predictable, or fair situations. Selective colleges (which is all we’re talking about) are just that. They are in a position to select, and their criteria won’t always be quantifiable. I know that some colleges overseas work differently, and it is debatable whether it is any “fairer” for cutoffs to be that arbitrary. It certainly creates intense pressure on teenage students, as well as an incentive to cheat. International students presume that the American system is as easy to “game” as others, when it isn’t at the very top. That will be the case throughout life. An employer might pass over a more qualified applicant for someone who is better looking or more personable in an interview. A prospective romantic partner might pick the scruffy guy who makes her pay for his beers over a respectable young investment banker. Private colleges, in particular, are entirely within their rights when it comes to assembling the sort of student body they want. I always find it ironic when conservatives or libertarians loudly proclaim individual rights in the marketplace, and then decry private universities’ policies. Some of these colleges have declared one form of “diversity” or another as part of their mission since their founding. Talented athletes have always had a strong advantage. We do not have a single qualifying examination. As I’ve said elsewhere, Malala Youssafzai will probably get into any American college she applies to, regardless of her GPA and test scores, and I doubt many people would object to that. The competition for freshman admissions among Nobel Peace Prize laureates isn’t the same as it is for high-stat American high school students.

53

Post #47, it’s national past time to argue on college confidential, check out some of the long threads on the parents forum. Some of the threads I don’t dare open them, too long for me to read.

54

@DrGoogle Nuh uh. The Parents Forum has way too many long paragraphs that bore me.

55

@DarkEclipse Please provide the exact text the next time.

Here is the UCB website:

http://admissions.berkeley.edu/internationalrequirements

The students anticipate receiving A marks. It different than saying students are expected to receive A marks by UCB.

This is no different than most competitive students say they anticipate to receive grade A or score of 5 on AP classes when they apply to UCB or other selective colleges. And in the end most of them would have A marks.

56

Continued - Furthermore, colleges like UF don’t state similar requirements because they don’t require them. You cannot say they are not straightforward because they don’t have them.

UCB and other UC campuses also have similar academic subjects A-G requirements for domestic students. A student with 4.0 GPA and 2400 SAT could be rejected by UCB if he/she did not take one of the A-G subjects, regardless whether the subject is easy or difficult. Subject requirement is different than grade requirement.

57

Every students suffers like that but life goes on. OP decided to apply to those schools. Schools didn’t make any agreement with you. You look for them thinking you will get a great aid. You should have applied for safety schools. Be happy wherever you go, schools will never change because of what you said. Good Luck!

58

@DarkEclipse - first, I’ll admit that I skim-read many of the posts (not just yours) as they were getting repetitive so I may have missed some nuances so please don’t blast me with quotes.

It really seems so simple to me. Why are U.S. colleges so much more vague about requirements than their international counterparts? They get many-fold the number of applicants. There is no way to admit all qualified applicants - the best they can offer is admission in a later semester or later year. That being said, it’s quite generous of some to give auto-merit scholarships to those admitted based on just GPA and test scores. I mean ‘generous’ facetiously in most cases as I do feel the cost of tuition in most U. S, universities outweighs the value.

I understand the frustration - the common app plus a large increase in the number students applying compared to past years has helped to create this imperfect system. Add to that the unique requirements of each university and varying dates for deadlines and responses. Any student mastering this system on their own deserves to get in somewhere! And here is where I will always repeat - find some safeties to love!

59

@coolweather I fail to see why adding those 4 lines would have made any difference. Once again, I urge you to do your research on the A level curriculum. Students anticipating those marks are through the system of predicted grades, which are sent by the schools. If your actual grade drops below your predicted grade, then there is a high chance your admission offer will be rescinded. You can email UCB for confirmation, or confirm it through any A level board.

@singermom4 Thanks singermom. I do understand, it’s just very tedious. I agree that auto merit scholarships are very generous.
I doubt that us internationals can find any safeties, except maybe CCs.

60

A level is a British system. I think the term predictive means the results are not known until summer or something.