Isn’t most (car)fentanyl sent to the US through the mail? From China? It’s so very strong that a tiny amount is worth a ton of $, far less than even fits in a first class envelope.
The NY Times article on one Ohio farm town would suggest you are correct. The jobs they can’t fill pay “up to $18 an hour” but are temporary and very hard work. None of the rural folks in that area will do those jobs at that price, probably because there aren’t benefits and it’s temporary, besides being hard, even though it pays more than 2x minimum wage. Migrant workers, mostly illegal, will.
If farms did pay whatever it would take to get Americans to work on them, then I guess the price of US produce would have to go higher, and then “our” produce would lose out to imports more than it does.
I live in a rural area BTW.
On the other hand, Alaska fishing boats are seasonal and the work is hard but they seem to do OK getting people to work them, because they pay really well, like $15K a month for 3 months. Maybe that’s what farmers will have to do.
It’s interesting the differences you see when you travel across the country. I lived in the mid-Atlantic and was used to seeing Hispanic people in all sorts of service jobs, say as hotel maids. Visiting colleges in upstate NY and those jobs were filled by white women. The same in semi-rural northern AZ. So in these cases there were less opportunities to move beyond a simple service job in the rural areas and so there was no need for immigrants to fill it. It’s a complicated situation.
I feel that we need a total overhaul of our immigration system. Let more people in who are clamoring to come in but stop turning a blind eye at illegals because it suits the corporate interest to do so or is just easier to do. And tighten up that program that lets people buy their way in.
“On the other hand, Alaska fishing boats are seasonal and the work is hard but they seem to do OK getting people to work them, because they pay really well, like $15K a month for 3 months. Maybe that’s what farmers will have to do.”
A lot less at risk working on a farm than in Alaska fishing. They pay a lot because you are away from your family for weeks and putting your life at risk.
If farmers wind up paying anywhere close to that for help, imagine how up in arms Americans will be about their food costs. We benefit from incredibly low priced food, in relationship to incomes, compared to the vast majority of the world.
They pay a lot because that’s what it takes to get men up there to do it. Migrant workers are away from their families for weeks too, and actually often get hurt as well, not to mention long-term health issues due to repetitive physical work, exposure to pesticides, etc.
Local American people would pretty much have to be migrant workers too, if they wanted to make a full time living out of farm work.
That seems like what will have to happen if farms are to function without cheap labor or significantly more automation, no?
“That seems like what will have to happen if farms are to function without cheap labor or significantly more automation, no?”
That’s one of the reasons I can see the benefits of immigration. They bust their butts and are doing jobs others don’t want to do. They aren’t stealing jobs, IMO. Same holds true in restaurants. Do folks realize how much the restaurant industry would be hurt without immigrant workers?
The Alaskan fishing industry is also dependent on foreign workers. From an article I posted earlier:
“Citing the importance of the $5.8 billion seafood industry to her state, Senator Lisa Murkowski, an Alaska Republican, told Mr. Kelly during a recent Senate hearing that a “short-term fix is urgently needed.”
“During the salmon run, Alaska Glacier Seafoods in Juneau operates two shifts seven days a week to process the catch. The company typically relies on H-2Bs to fill 60 out of 200 positions but did not get any this year. “That may cause us to buy less fish, which would impact fishermen and their families,” Mike Erickson, the company’s president, said.
He dispatched two human resources workers to recruit in other states. In a month, they hired only 12 people. “At the end of the day, a lot of Americans think working in a fishy, smelly environment is not the thing for them,” Mr. Erickson said.”
@doschicos , it seems paradoxical to support the ‘fight for 15’, unions, social welfare, and illegal immigration all at the same time. Americans don’t take those jobs because they have an alternative. It is crazy to import workers to fill jobs when we have plenty of our own low skilled unemployed people, who we pay not to work. So what if lettuce costs $1 more per head, we will save a lot more than that in medical and education costs.
I have a friend who was looking for a landscaper and tree trimmer last summer. I gave her the names of two excellent companies I have used. Both companies are licensed, bonded, have long lists of references. They are not cheap, but their work is excellent. She asked me if the workers are legal or illegal. I said I don’t know, but that the employees I have come to know are long term employees. The same crew has trimmed my trees several times in the last decade. It is high, dangerous work, that I want done in a way that is safe for the crew, safe for my house, and healthy for my trees. She asked if the workers speak English. I said the crew supervisors speak English.
She ended up not having any work done last summer because she couldn’t find anyone who could guarantee their workers are legal AND cheap AND experienced. (She also wants English speaking laborors.)
All I can tell you all is that many of you just aren’t learning the lesson that a majority of “country” folk and moderate conservatives have had it with the superiority complex of the left. They are managing to push out their base of honest work a day blue collar workers. If some people would start getting off their high horse and start looking past thinking all conservatives are “ists” some commonalities could be found. It’s okay to have a different opinion or want a different lifestyle, for both sides.
@greenwitch I agree the system needs to be reformed.
Why do you not like the ability of folks to buy their way in? I worked overseas with a German fellow that spent a few years working in the US when he was younger. He and his wife have no children and are now retired and quite wealthy. Every year he enters the US green card lottery as they would like to live in the US but has not been successful. I think the US should vet folks like them but allow them in. He would bring quite a bit of wealth into the country.
Show me one conservative politician who is doing anything to look for commonalities! Just one. Maybe John Kasich was, a little teeny bit. John McCain and Mitt Romney were before they decided they wanted to run for President as Republicans.
Right now, the preferred conservative strategy seems to be content to govern the country from the vantage point of their 25-30% base and their gerrymandered Congressional map (with help, of course, from the constitutional design of the Senate), plus their devil’s bargain with a dangerous narcissist. (I’ll strand by that “-ist,” thank you.) There is not one little bit of looking for commonalities on the side of those who hold all the power with a minority of the votes.
There are many conservatives I respect. There are many issues on which I agree with conservative positions. But right now I see no reason to respect a single conservative leader. They are all about power and divisiveness, and sucking up to the Kochs.
@yearstogo - I don’t think we should get rid of that option, just tighten the rules. You are supposed to bring in at least $1 million dollars and start a business that provides jobs for at least 10 people. But there are waivers for people who invest $ 1/2 million dollars in a real estate project that is built in a poor area. This has been controversial and abused as “poor area” has been stretched quite thin.
Isn’t there a special designation for migrant farmworkers to come here temporarily? I think that’s a good middle ground. The workers come here to do something that we couldn’t/wouldn’t do - at least not in its entirety. Then they go back to the homes they probably want to stay in, and bring money back to enrich those communities.
As long as they get fair wages and have a safe working and living environment it seems fine.
As for tree trimmers, egads please make sure they have insurance! They are up there with Alaskan fishermen as having the most dangerous job.
“Those illegals cost us more than they benefit us”
Actually American corporate welfare does but the swamp has access to government and wears fancy clothes so we celebrate them instead of naming them what they are…
“The visas in question, known as H-2Bs, have an annual nationwide quota of 66,000, divided between winter and summer. But the summer allotment was exhausted quickly because Congress, concerned about the program’s impact on American workers, chose in December not to renew a provision that allowed workers who had H-2Bs in some previous years to work without being counted against the quota. That decision effectively sliced the number of visas by at least half.”
@emilybee - that is the H-2B visa program, which seems to be for seasonal domestic help mostly.
The H-2A visa covers temporary agricultural work.
Honestly, my children always had a tough time finding summer jobs of any kind other than babysitting. I don’t know all the details, but maybe Congress was right to limit the H-2B visa numbers. They quote a man who pays well for landscaping and can’t find any workers. Wow, those jobs would have 100 applicants each where I live!
"Whitely said she assumed her company would be flooded with people applying for the jobs because of all the media coverage Trump Winery has received for using the H-2A program.
“Guess how many applicants we had? … 13,” she said. “And they were all from places like the Philippines, Indonesia, Kenya, Nigeria. We did not have one American worker apply on [the first job order].”
…for canning. Processing. THOSE jobs don’t pay what the fishing crews do. They get like $25k a YEAR, while the fishing crews can get that in less than two months.
One factor here is, I think, that being on a fishing boat crew is a man’s job the vast majority of the time while canning/processing is largely women’s work. In Alaska there aren’t the # of women there needed to do it and it’s less appealing for people of any gender to show up for the summer for that.
A think lot of lower paid jobs that illegal immigrants do are traditionally women’s work - cleaning, cooking, caring for young children - landscaping and construction exceptions, farm work neutral. But if the job isn’t valued much in the first place it’s not going to get valued more just because female citizens have more options for work now, unless businesses have no choice but to pay more.
Well one of my kids learned Spanish (for free) working alongside seasonal migrant employees for several summers. One guy in particular had been back to the same company for 15 seasons. I think the issue is with Americans who disdain physical work. Even teenagers these days wrinkle their noses if you talk to them about picking fruit or working in the sheds…heavens that was the most common work for teens when I was growing up and paid then and now slightly above minimum wage and generally better than restaurant work. Sorry, but I really believe we’re become a soft bellied bloated whiny society looking every where and under the couch for others to blame. So if American citizens don’t want to work in the fields or sheds, then thank heavens for the immigrant work force or we’d be seeing bare shelves in the urban grocery stores and paying a whole lot more for our food.
As far as I can tell, even paying seasonal help less than minimum wage, they can’t survive unless there is no debt. And that is almost impossible. There used to be farm subsidies but they have mostly been phased out. I wholeheartedly agree with JHS that economies change and evolve over time. When my neighbors have access to college, opportunities increase. Some will be able to keep the farm because farm income is supplementing a professional salary. Or they can give up on farming since they now have the ability to move someplace else for work. However, due to state budget cuts college is less affordable here now than it’s been for probably a couple of generations. While landowner income has decreased due to ending government subsidies.