a way to create future U.S. engineers?

Parents Forum
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<p>H is an engineer in the truest sense – he has avoided management, and is deeply involved in “invention” - his true love. He is the only American where he works, and “foreign engineering” has it’s weaknesses. Here in Germany, many engineers are taught in “trade schools” and are missing some of the deep, theoretical math and such. The exception are those who are university trained to PhD levels, and they seem to be often “book-bound” with little practical experience. (I’m NOT an engineer, so I don’t know all the technical language and requirements.) H consistently has to teach the locals WHY their ideas aren’t going to work. Also, part of his job is tearing apart products from other countries, eg China. Those engineers do not invent – they copy US inventions and try to find ways to make it cheaper. I mean cheaper monetarily, but they end up being cheaper, and often dangerous, in quality. If the US quits creating engineers, I think the whole world’s progress will slow.</p>

<p>My H is frustrated that all three of our kids dismissed out of hand any notion of becoming engineers. He thinks it is because they have seen the long hours and “Dilbert quality” managment my H has had to put up with. It is those “people who can manage” that have no clue about engineering who are discouraging the future of engineering. IMHO.</p>

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<p>PS – MikeMac – thanks for the link on choosing a job. I printed it out for my 16 yo D to read. (She attended “women in engineering” camp at GA Tech a couple years ago, btw. Although she enjoyed it, she has decided she isn’t interested in engineering. But she doesn’t know what she wants to do.)</p>

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<p>er, um, arent there too many engineers as it is?</p>

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<p>I can use some advice about what type of kid engineering may interest; I have little knowlege about this career.
You see, our whole family is very outgoing and creative and have art, music or people oriented careers such as nursing, social work, teaching. </p>

<p>My younger son dosn’t fit this profile and I am wondering if this type of career would be suitable for someone who is painfully shy. He does very well at math. and took a computer elective in school and the teacher praised him. He does very well in all his other subjects writes well, but his writing lacks creativity and emotion.
But he does not care for science, especially writing up the labs. His labs were sloppy. He does get B+/A- in science - would get a higher grade if his labs were better.
I am a believer in guiding kids to explore what they are best at and then if they rebel against me and choose another path to follow, that is what I hope for, because it shows that they found a passion.
There is a robotics club at school and a mag lev club, but my son is too shy to join. </p>

<p>Thank you for any advice, I was also wondering about accounting since he does very well in math.</p>

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<p>Hi, MikeMac:</p>

<p>Thanks for the additional info. You are entirely right that there are many other idividuals who may surpass what engineering professionals make. If that was your intent, I agree. </p>

<p>By the way, my son’s interest in engineering is entirely his own. My interest, as his father, is preparing myself with as much information as possible about colleges and other careeers, should he ask for advice. I’m sure most other parents here are doing the same. Looking for information and advice.</p>

<p>I am not looking for debates and don’t have the time to get involved in rebuttals. I come to this forum looking for facts and informed opinions.</p>

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<p>ebayispayingforcollege,</p>

<p>I laugh every time I see your handle! I hope it is true!</p>

<p>My son is a lot like yours, except he loves both math and science. Mine is probably sloppy at his labs, too. My son is extremely shy. I did get him to attend a meeting of the Robotics club at his school after he had expressed an interest, but after one meeting, he did not want to go back, so I didn’t force him.</p>

<p>My son brought up engineering on his own. There was a summer program at Johns Hopkins Univeristy offering engineering classes for kids. For whatever reason, it sounded like fun to him, and got him to ovcercome his shyness enough to attend. Last year he took, “Introduction to Engineering”, which briefly gave the students exposure to all the major discliplines of engineering…civil, chemical, electrical, computer and mechanical. I can’t remember if they did anything with Bioengineering. He is going back for another class this summer in aeronautical engineering.</p>

<p>I dont know enough about engineering or your son to know if there is a fit. But, you are encouraging your son to keep exploring areas that he likes, so he’ll stumble onto something, and it may be in engineering! And, who knows, it may change a couple times before he makes a final decision. That is why I am here asking for career information, too.</p>

<p>My father in law became an engineer solely out of his love for math. He did okay in science and the other subjects in school, but he told me it was his love of math that steered him into engineering. He spent his entire career as a civil engineer.</p>

<p>I also quizzed my son about accounting, because he loves Math and loves to play with numbers, but he seems to have zero interest in that area.</p>

<p>One interesting comment my son has made a couple times in the past few weeks of our college search is, “Engineers are definitely the cool nerds”. :slight_smile: We have been fortunate to get private tours through the engineering departments at two colleges so far, and have seen the students doing hands-on work.</p>

<p>My son has several copies of a pamphlet written for high school students called, “Engineering: Go For It”, which details engineering careers and is extremely well written. If you want additional information about it, PM me. I can help you get a copy or send you one of the many we have accumulated in our college hunt. :)</p>

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<p>binx and patuxent and others:</p>

<p>The subject of outsourcing of engineering jobs has been mentioned in this forum, and is a concern of mine. Though it may only be a concern because I don’t have a clear picture of what the future holds, not being in the field of engineering.</p>

<p>A friend of ours is in a similar situation as binx mentions, one of the few Americans in an environmental engineering project overseas, patuxent talked about this, too. </p>

<p>shash_rao asked, “Aren’t there too many engineers, already?”.</p>

<p>Every college admissions counseler we have spoken to says that companies are standing in line to hire engineering graduates. But, will engineering jobs be outsourced and by the time my rising hs senior grduates, the demand will be gone?</p>

<p>Nobody has a crystall bll to see into the future, but maybe somebody reading this is knowledgeable in the field and has an opinion of what the future may look like in five years for kids who think they want to be engineers? How strong will the demand be for engineering jobs in America in the future?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

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<p>To the parents of math kids:</p>

<p>Personally I would not recommend that a kid enter engineering school simply because he/she likes math. Or even if he/she likes both math and science.</p>

<p>I was such a kid, and wound up spending years studying arcane engineering subjects which had a lot of math. Then I entered engineering practice and found that I had very little interest in the actual work I was doing. I left the field, and now wish I used my valuable college days studying subjects that would have more lasting value to me at this point in my life.</p>

<p>I think if your kid likes these academic subjects, but also has demonstrated interest in making things, building things, robotics, etc, then great. If not there is a good chance that long term he/she will be doing something else down the road.</p>

<p>The math used by accountants is basic arithmetic for the most part. Someone truly gifted in math will not be challenged in that field from a mathematical perspective.</p>

<p>There are some other fields where high mathematical aptitude is useful, e.g. computers, some areas of finance, actuary, the sciences, math teacher, economist.</p>

<p>Everyone who goes into engineering knows about the money ceiling. They go anyway because that’s what they think they are best at, or are best qualified for. These people are not starving. They are corporate drones, and as such pretty much share the fate of other non-management corporate professionals. Some get into management, consulting, and change fields, as an earlier poster described. Many get stock options from their companies, and as such do ok if they are fortunate enough to pick the right company. But even the rest are decently-paid, though not rich.</p>

<p>My opinion is go ahead, if that’s what you are. If not, don’t.</p>

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<p>Things like HS lab reports shouldn’t make or break a career choice. Engineers are interested in how things work. Here’s a quick test:</p>

<p>On the computer, does your s/d (A) yell “Help - the computer’s messed up again!”; or (B) figure the problem out himself. Does he (A) stumble thru enough basics of a program to get by; or (B) experiment with and explore applications to get the most out of the features. </p>

<p>Does he (A) ask what button on the TV remote he needs to press to play a DVD or (B) volunteer to hook together all those @!#$%^ entertainment center components himself and then teach you how he programmed the remote. </p>

<p>The closer you are to the A’s, the farther you are from engineering; the closer you are to B’s the closer you are to it.</p>

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<p>And some engineers are clever-thinking innovators who find an idea and run with it. And if they happen to do it at the right time, in the right place, with the right marketing, and it takes off, some big company will buy it and they <em>will</em> be rich. :)</p>

<p>This dream is not as prevalent and is more grounded than it was 5 years ago, thankfully, but also thankfully there are still people with ideas who are ready to try them out. That’s part of what engineers can do very well.</p>

<p>Oh, and VERY WELL PUT, DontPanic, excellent metric.</p>

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<p>DontPanic1 just posted one of the clearest messges I have read on this subject! </p>

<p>Hope I did not confuse anybody with my father in laws experience. That was anectodal only, and most likely would not apply to anyone elses particular son or daughter. Just because you like Math/Science doesn’t mean you will like engineering. I also do not want to imply that I think if you pursue an engineering career, you may spend your entire life in the same field, or, like my father-in-law, in the same job. In fact, I think just the opposite is probably closer to reality. </p>

<p>I think it is safe to say that even if you think you will like a particular career in your college years, you may not like it a decade or two later, as we all change over time and look at our lives, families and careers from different perspectives. Similar to the thoughts expressed by Monydad, I had a chosen career path that lasted for 25 years or so. I can’t imagine myself being involved in that career today. My chosen career field has changed dramatically and so have I. </p>

<p>By the way, DontPanic1, I am glad my son is closer to a “B”, because I am closer to an “A”. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :)</p>

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<p>Guest Editorial in Houston Chrinicle today:</p>

<p>According to Tegwin Pulley of TI - VP (most likely a non engineer) of work force development, diversity and work-life balance. US produces 60,000 EE/year, China - 3 times, Europe and India 2 times each.</p>

<ul>
<li><h1>of computer science students dropped by about 60%</h1></li>
<li><p>US would soon become nation of brokers - nation of middlemen.</p></li>
<li><p>Instead of producing the technology needed in those countries we will outsource (IP loss/theft) them to India and China. Soon those countries will realize that they don’t need US middlemen. </p></li>
<li><p>we will become a nation of celebrated movies and entertainment.</p></li>
</ul>

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<p>Don’t Panic - What an interesting test! Like Gnu I am a total “A” and my son a total “B”.
I am happy to find this thread and I have learned a lot reading it.</p>

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<p>DH has a masters in engineering & has transitioned to management. He spends ALOT of time overseas in places like Singapore & Thailand, due to outsourcing. The first time I had an inkling that DS2 might be the engineering type was when he was 8 & his flip flop broke. I found him in the garage fixing it by putting a metal washer under the little round thing on the bottom that holds the strap in place. Now, we can definitely afford a new pair of flip flops…that’s just the type of thing engineers do :slight_smile: But, back to the original question. For our DS2 it was Project Lead The Way that got him & MANY kids at our high school interested in engineering. Every single one of them plans to go into engineering has been accepted into highly ranked engineering programs.</p>

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<p>Simba, can you post a link to that article - or at least which day the article was and the heading of the article? Thanks.</p>

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<p>I think one way is for engineering professional groups to introduce engineering to middle school students. In our school district, the medical and allied health groups all have connections with the school, present programs, and offer shadowing opportunities. </p>

<p>Engineering students generally seem to come from families of. . . engineers. </p>

<p>If the engineering profession wants more engineers, they are going to have to make more serious efforts, particularly among female middle school and high school students. </p>

<p>FIRST is great too, but takes $$$ that aren’t found in all geographic areas.</p>

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<p>

That’s what I’m saying, it’s fantastic but way too expensive. Maybe “fixing” that problem (e.g. some mega-rich sponsors changing the funding model such that any school that puts up a faculty mentor and offers a team of 10 or more students gets to register and take part) would be a good way to create future US engineers. (Per the thread title. :slight_smile: )</p>

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<p>Jun 20, 11:08 AM (ET)</p>

<p>By RACHEL KONRAD</p>

<p>STANFORD, Calif. (AP) - As an eager freshman in the fall of 2001, Andrew Mo’s career trajectory seemed preordained: He’d learn C++ and Java languages while earning a computer science degree at Stanford University, then land a Silicon Valley technology job. The 22-year-old Shanghai native graduated this month with a major in computer science and a minor in economics. But he no longer plans to write code for a living, or even work at a tech company.</p>

<p>Mo begins work in the fall as a management consultant with The Boston Consulting Group, helping to lead projects at multinational companies. Consulting, he says, will insulate him from the offshore outsourcing that’s sending thousands of once-desirable computer programming jobs overseas.</p>

<p>More important, Mo believes his consulting gig is more lucrative, rewarding and imaginative than a traditional tech job. He characterized his summer programming internships as “too focused or localized, even meaningless.”</p>

<p>“A consulting job injects you into companies at a higher level,” he said. “You don’t feel like you’re doing basic stuff.”
…
Gartner researchers say most people affiliated with corporate information technology departments will assume “business-facing” roles, focused not so much on gadgets and algorithms but corporate strategy, personnel and financial analysis.</p>

<p>“If you’re only interested in deep coding and you want to remain in your cubicle all day, there are a shrinking number of jobs for you,” said Diane Morello, Gartner vice president of research. “Employers are starting to want versatilists - people who have deep experience with enterprise-wide applications and can parlay it into some larger cross-company projects out there.”</p>

<p>Career experts say the decline of traditional tech jobs for U.S. workers isn’t likely to reverse anytime soon.</p>

<p>The U.S. software industry lost 16 percent of its jobs from March 2001 to March 2004, the Washington-based Economic Policy Institute found. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that information technology industries laid off more than 7,000 American workers in the first quarter of 2005.
…
At Stanford, career experts are urging engineering and science majors to get internships and jobs outside of their comfort zones - in marketing, finance, sales and even consulting.</p>

<p>They suggest students develop foreign language skills to land jobs as cross-cultural project managers - the person who coordinates software development between work teams in Silicon Valley and the emerging tech hub of Bangalore, India, for example.</p>

<p>Stanford listed 268 job postings in its computer science jobs database in the spring quarter - roughly double the number from last year.</p>

<p>But that doesn’t necessarily indicate a plethora of traditional tech jobs. About half of the new postings would prefer applicants who speak at least two languages and many were for management-track positions, said Beverley Principal, assistant director of employment services at Stanford.</p>

<p>“When they’re first hired at the entry level, just out of school, people can’t always become a manager or team leader,” Principal said. “But many employers see these people moving into management roles within two years. They need to know how to step into these roles quickly.”</p>

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<p>TheDad: Obviously, your engineering days were filled with memories of Polish generals and not studying your fellow students.</p>

<p>Male & female engineer in one room during a blackout? Result: nuclear-powered lightbulb. Now, two first-year law students might be different… and that’s why there are too many lawyers in the world. ;)</p>

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<p>Random thoughts:</p>

<p>Engineering (at the right school) can be phenomenal for girls. Personally, I think that it’s a great profession for women. The hours are normal. The work is very project-oriented, so a woman can wrap up a project, take time off with the family, and return to work. It’s possible to work part-time: you just do fewer projects. It is certainly intellectually challenging. The salary is (as stated above) not phenomenal but, really, is almost better than anything you’re going to get right out of school or on that short a workweek. Engin. has all the makings of a great profession for women who want a life or want a family, but don’t want to sacrifice their careers. Also good for men who actually want to be there for their wives and kids instead of living at the office. </p>

<p>Just a thought.</p>