<p>I know more cross admits than singleton admits to the top schools. It is typical for kids to get into most of the top schools in my experience.</p>
<p>I have always thought that Harvard could have kept their EA and just kept the accept % to what their usual RD rate was, but apparently that can affect yield. See, kids who get deferred early will often go to a competing school just to “get even”. I know several kids who were deferred from HPY early, and then got into a number of the schools later and made a point of not accepting the school that deferred them. With EA, there is a plus you get even though it is not binding, in that some kids just are done and will not send out more apps since they are in. No more money, interviews, etc. They are finished. Why not, if you are in Harvard? So that was the value. Now, H is in the position where kids who are deferred from its competitors are more likely to go to H if all the schools accept them.</p>
<p>Now I certainly sympathize with anyone who didn’t get into his top choice college, and I can understand the emotions of that student and the student’s family in concluding that the unavailable college is undesirable to other students. But in fact Harvard is still desirable to plenty of students, and will be for a long time. Yale has had ups and downs in its overall number of applicants in the last few years, because students have been unsure of their chances of being admitted, but Yale never has a small number of applicants. Perhaps Harvard’s number of applicants may go down a little next year, but I don’t expect it to be easy to get into Harvard any time in my lifetime. </p>
<p>Best wishes to all the Harvard applicants who didn’t get into Harvard. I expect they will thrive in the colleges that admitted them.</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words. It is not that I am trying to bash Harvard. Otherwise, I would disclose the numbers I got for the cross-admits (BTW, I sent it to Stanford). I am just trying to use some “harsh” words to remind everyone what could also be. Hopefully I don’t mislead anyone, but let everyone hear the different voices.</p>
<p>Oh my. What on earth does it mean to have a “top choice” school? My D applied to 11 ( I get confused because things got hectic but counted them up the other day) and there wasn’t a “top choice” in the bunch. Our public flagship really, really, really would have been okay with her and, in fact, her smartest peers are attending it!! I don’t like the tone of outraged entitlement on this thread. When you’re dealing with extremely slim margins of chance you have to understand that the number apply to you, too! Of course it’s capricious! You should have worked hard in high school to develop your mind, not to get into HYP. The point in the end is what’s in your head!</p>
<p>Yes. Some students have a particular favorite college in mind, some have a particular set of colleges in mind (that’s been my son’s case for a few years), and some are open to attending pretty nearly any college that will admit them. All those students can thrive best by preparing well in high school to be well educated adults. All can also recognize that each college admission committee makes its own decisions for its own reasons, and no one has to take rejection–or admission–as a statement on the student’s personal worth.</p>
<p>Admittedly I skimmed through but did not read all 17 pages of posts. So if I repeat what has already been discussed I apologize.</p>
<p>As often happens in life, I see a divergence between my thoughts about this topic generally and my own children specifically (sort of a NIMBY phenomenon). I like the concept of making college more available and affordable, and I understand the barriers to entry for the non-affluent. I cringe and feel upset when I run numbers and see that my children do not qualify for financial aid. At the same time I understand that attending an elite private school is a privilege, not a right.</p>
<p>So when I look at the EA/ED decision through my rising senior son’s eyes, I have a mixed reaction. I like the idea of allowing him to apply to multiple schools EA/ED even though it would be considered the worst form of trophy-hunting and unethical to boot. And I wish these top schools would retain their EA/ED options to the extent that it advantages my son. He’s in a slightly different position than some others in that he is very specific about what he wants to study and get out of an undergraduate education. Only a few schools offer it, and they all happen to be among the elite and most selective schools. He is trying to find a good fit among “safety” schools but they really don’t exist. </p>
<p>He is qualified on paper for admission to any of the elite schools, but he understands that it is a total crapshoot. He would absolutely commit to EA/ED admission at one of these elite schools if the opportunity to do so were still available. Since it may not be, he has to either (a) apply EA/ED to one of the schools on his list that still has this option available, or (b) apply to every school on his list in the hopes of getting in to at least one school that offers what he wants to study. Some of you might see this as trophy hunting. He, and I, see this as a rational approach. We have already discussed that, if none of the schools on his list accept him, he would be better off taking a gap year and reapplying than going to a “safety” school that doesn’t offer what he wants to study just for the sake of being in college.</p>
<p>Laxtaxi, there are a few things in your post I’d like to address. Don’t know what is on your sons list, but it is really tough when a kid does not have at least one school he can find that he likes and offers him what he wants to study, and is extremely likely to take him. Since he is qualified for admission to any of the top schools, he has a much wider filed than most kids by far. And if you can pay for his education, he is truly golden. Though sitting out a year is an option, it too can have its drawbacks, the major one being that he may not get into his choice of schools the following year either. Then what is he to do? Keep trying? Kids who are not accepted to the very top schools but are qualifed tend to do very well whereever they may go, and their happiness and quality of life depends quite a bit on how they perceive their environment. To feel that any college other than the elites on his list are not worthy of his presence is makes it very easy to feel like a failure even when high performing. </p>
<p>I don’t see a big problem with the fact that there are schools that do not offer early applications or those that have ED or SCEA. If your first choice is an ED school, I recommend picking some rolling admissions schools along with it that are likely to accept you. That way a deferral or denial would be mitigated a bit by an acceptance. Also do your RD apps before getting the response from your early schools so all you have to do is drop them in the mail so you are not working on apps over the holidays depressed from the non acceptance. </p>
<p>By applying to a number of EA/rollings schools and maybe one ED school if you have a strong first choice, you can get a very good idea as to where you stand in admissions. By getting an acceptance that you like, you can pare down your list so that those schools you don’t like as much as what you have in hand, can be pitched. And if you get bad news like getting deferred or rejected by a school you thought was likely to take you, you have the opportunity to revise your list, meet with your GC about your app, have someone go over your app, talk to the adcoms that rejected you, so that you can supplement and change your app if necessary before sending them out to other schools.</p>
<p>I would love to know what it is that “only a few schools offer” and they “among the most elite and selective schools”. I strongly doubt that such a field exists. I believe that the more specific a student’s educational goals, the more likely it is that he or she could find colleges up and down the food chain that would meet those goals on an equivalent basis.</p>
<p>I think it’s commendable that parents seek advantages for their children, which can include encouraging their children to apply to “reach” colleges, but when millions of parents all have that desire, colleges may or may not design their admission systems to advantage my son or yours.</p>
<p>I have to say, I took a gamble and didn’t apply to any of the schools generally considered “safeties” because I would not have wanted to go to a SUNY or a local and comparable safety, for a variety of reasons. My plans would have involved taking a gap year and re-applying this year. Guess it depends on whether you want to roll the dice.</p>
<p>Also, if I can throw in my 2 cents of anecdotal evidence…several of the 2012ers I know (local area as well as ISEF 08 seniors) who got into HYP, HYPS, HYPSM, etc., all chose Harvard, so from my vantage point eliminating SCEA didnt really affect things.</p>
<p>“I would love to know what it is that “only a few schools offer” and they “among the most elite and selective schools”. I strongly doubt that such a field exists. I believe that the more specific a student’s educational goals, the more likely it is that he or she could find colleges up and down the food chain that would meet those goals on an equivalent basis.” </p>
<p>Yep, so if you could share the information, perhaps we can inform you on other colleges that offer programs in the same field. </p>
<p>“I have to say, I took a gamble and didn’t apply to any of the schools generally considered “safeties” because I would not have wanted to go to a SUNY or a local and comparable safety, for a variety of reasons. My plans would have involved taking a gap year and re-applying this year. Guess it depends on whether you want to roll the dice.”</p>
<p>Yeah, that’s a personal choice. Although it’s prudent to apply to safety schools, you have to actually want to go to those schools. You can’t force yourself to like a safety but make sure to do sufficient research before committing on a gap-year as a last resort. </p>
<p>A lot of kids I know with high stats did not apply to safety schools. This year, they all got into something on their list and did not need a safety. But it’s like insurance, if you need it, it is so nice to have and can make a big quality of life difference. It gives you options that you have chosen if things do not play out. </p>
<p>A very good friend of mine’s D went through this some years ago and only got into one of her schools. She did not have safeties on her list, and was sure she would get financial aid as she was eligible and applied to schools that met most of full need. She got a huge package of loans from the school that accepted her. After a tough month of tears, agony, despondency and depression, she chose to go to a good local school that had some spots still open. She could have gotten a good free ride there had she just included the one page app in with her original choices, and ended up just hoping she would get in. She worked and borrowed to get through that first year, and in the end all worked out well, but it was harrowing month for her and those who loved her. I would not want anyone to go through that. The thing is, these kids are still young and can change their minds. Maybe in the fall, the safety option does not look so good, but as other kids they know are going there, some programs at such schools may offer some opportunities, they may get a great scholarship offer from a safety. All of these things can happen only if you apply. If you are squeezed at the end without an attractive option, it can be scary and depressing. Kids at this age are at such high risk for mood disorders as it is. It’s just nice to have some options just in case. If you pick a good safety, transfer can be an option if the student excells the first year.</p>
<p>If your safety plan is reapplying, you should be aware that conventional wisdom is that successful reapplications to a college that rejected a student the year before are rare as hen’s teeth.</p>
<p>Do yourself a favor. Do some actual research. If your son really has the goods to be a strong candidate for Harvard (since that’s what we’re talking about), and you are relatively insensitive to cost, there are bound to be some absolutely first-rate institutions that would meet his educational objectives where he would have an excellent chance of being accepted.</p>
<p>By the way, neither of my kids ever applied to their safety schools. They didn’t have to. Using EA or rolling admissions applications, they each had an acceptance in hand at a college they were perfectly happy to attend by mid-December. But that didn’t mean that they weren’t thinking about it.</p>
<p>74% initial yield, lower than last year’s, says that every four admitted at Harvard, one did not come. I don’t know if the 200 waitlist drawings were included to make this yield. Personally, I know four got into Harvard, one did not go. She went to Yale instead.</p>
<p>^The yield is based on the number who accept initially out of the offers given in late march. Harvard’s yield was 78%, so more like 1 in 5 but meh who’s splitting hairs…</p>
<p>200 Taken Off Waitlist at Harvard
Published On Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:38 AM
By LINGBO LI Crimson Staff Writer</p>
<p>More than 200 high school seniors stuck on Harvards waitlist will receive another letter from the admissions officethis time with better news. With the yield for the Class of 2012 projected at 76 percentlower than the initially reported 78 percentDean of Admissions and Financial Aid William R. Fitzsimmons 67 said that the admissions office will be taking more than the originally reported 150 to 175 students off the waitlist this year. Last year…</p>
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<p>Does this 76% yield includes those 200 waitlists?</p>