<p>With 7.1% acceptance rate, and wait till June to get notice, the kids could just end up with a community college if they are not careful. Next year, people will think twice about where to apply. Harvard is definitely a long shot for everyone. Everyone will have/have no chance to get in. See how many kids said that they never dreamt to be accepted, that means ??? If you are qualified and get into Harvard, you should not be surprised.</p>
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<p>I’ve actually been impressed, over the years, by the genuine humility of many of the students admitted to Harvard. They acknowledge that they were in a sense “lucky,” because even though they worked hard to prepare themselves for challenges during high school, they didn’t assume that they were better than many other applicants applying to Harvard. Harvard’s admission process (as the Harvard rejection letter acknowledges) has to make some fine distinctions among very outstanding students. A person who prepared thoroughly for challenging college study can still be legitimately surprised to be admitted to Harvard. Of course, with such a low base acceptance rate, no applicant to Harvard should be too chagrined to be declined an offer of admission. Presumably most such applicants still end up in some other great college in the fall.</p>
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<p>Sorry, but I feel no sympathy for the “poor” second student who loses out because he can’t decide which of HYP he likes best. A student who thinks enough of himself to assume he has his pick of all of them is awfully naive and unrealistic, and perhaps is not HYP material anyway. (And yes, I do know that some students DO get into all of them).</p>
<p>With one in four declined Harvard’s offer, I am sure that those are the cross-admits, and Harvard did not do better than YPSM. What I mean is that the top 2000 students (in their categories) are almost evenly distributed, with Yale did relatively better.</p>
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<p>Like everyone says applying EA offers no admissions benefit (ie easier to get in), it just gives a prospective student a jump on the admissions process and it maybe allows him to be into a school by December. Also, the applicant pool for EA tends to be significantly stronger since only those who are most reasonably qualified tend to actually apply early to that particular school (so Yale as a match instead of a reach for instance). I think Ea and even ED are very important, since as anyone in HS can attest too–this is a long and hard process.</p>
<p>I to be honest probably would have done EA to Harvard if they had it, but now I will most likely be doing it to Yale. I loved both, but obviously the absence of Harvard’s Ea forces prospective students in a different direction. Does that mean I won’t apply to Harvard, probably not, but EA is still a nice thing.</p>
<p>Finally the idea that certain people are unfairly effected by Ea because they did not understand the proccess or visit schools is honestly a moot point. In college admissions, like life if you want to be successful you need to know whats going on. I would hope that any student/family who is qualified enough to look at these schools can understand the basics of EA/ED and complete things on time (its not that hard). And you know what if you can’t thats ok apply RD, but let those of us who want to have the opportunity.</p>
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<p>I don’t say that. I’ve read the research on the subject. </p>
<p>[The</a> Early Admissions Game: Joining … - Google Book Search](<a href=“The Early Admissions Game - Christopher. Avery, Andrew. Fairbanks, Richard J. Zeckhauser - Google Books”>The Early Admissions Game - Christopher. Avery, Andrew. Fairbanks, Richard J. Zeckhauser - Google Books)</p>
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<p>This is an incredibly naive and idealistic view to take. Early applicant pools are filled with well connected legacies, athletic recruits, and others who’s opportunity cost of signalling committment to a single school is low. Schools prefer applicants who they believe will come. Hence the higher acceptance rates in the early round.</p>
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<p>You really haven’t given any justification for why the first student would make a better member of the class. Why should the second student “lose out”? Also, the second student is in no way assuming that he will be admitted to all three. I don’t see how you can possibly call someone who applies RD arrogant. Your final assertion that applying RD indicates that perhaps the student is not HYP material is completely unfounded.</p>
<p>I was working from your hypothetical that the 2 students are equal in every way. So neither one would “make a better member of the class.” They would contribute equally to the class. My point was to respond to your argument against EA simply because one student might not be able to decide which of HYP he likes best. He will still have to make that decision if he gets into all 3 RD. EA simply makes him pick his first choice 5 months sooner. I don’t see this as a valid reason to get rid of EA. </p>
<p>Sorry, but I didn’t mean to imply that applying RD makes someone “arrogant” or not HYP material. They can still do this. I was not advocating for eliminating RD.</p>
<p>Most students that apply SCEA to a top school like Yale (or H in the past) will be inclined to submit 8 or 10 apps to other schools for several reasons, including the fact that the chance of admission is a very long shot, and most will need to compare FA packages. I can’t see where EA reduces that significantly at all. Only a very few (rich) kids can afford to take a single shot. Those that wait until the final hour to submit those additional apps are taking a higher risk. We’ve been there and done that. D is a senior at H this fall. She was deferred SCEA at Yale, and yes, she was ultimately admitted to HYP and a raft of others. SCEA didn’t help a bit.</p>
<p>The reality is: people will still apply YSM’s EA. The accepted EA’s records will be shown in front of HP before RD, and HP will make a decision to accept them or not. If you are TRULY considered yourself a HP material, don’t apply YSM’s EA. 6 kids I know rejected by Yale’s early action got into Harvard RD, while 2 kids got into YS’s EA got rejected/waitlisted at HP. One got into MIT EA and Harvard RD.</p>
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<p>I can’t agree with that advice, and I can’t agree with the (false) premises you rely on in giving it.</p>
<p>I think the real reason ED admission rates are higher than RD rates is that it’s easier for the admissions committee to balance the class. (Or, as Weasel said, “Schools prefer applicants who they believe will come.”)</p>
<p>Suppose the school wants a class president, a squash player, and a violinist and has a 33% yield. They could wait until the regular round and make offers to three people in each category, but since none of the applicants has committed to attend, they could easily end up with three violinists, no squash players, and no class presidents (or some other undesirable combination). </p>
<p>On the other hand, if they make their offers in the ED round, they’re assured of getting exactly what they want. And if the ED squash player happens to have a C in AP French, well, maybe they’ll overlook that in order to make sure they definitely get a squash player this year.</p>
<p>Harvard’s RD yield is probably high enough that they can get a good balance without ED or EA. </p>
<p>(Actually, I don’t quite understand how EA benefits a school – although the yield may be somewhat higher than RD, they still don’t know for sure who will actually attend.)</p>
<p>Late last summer my son decided to apply to Harvard. We live in an area where very few people take the SAT, and to get to a SAT test site requires some planning and driving. Working around his hs activity schedule, December was when he took his last SAT II. He would not have been able to apply early if Harvard had EA.</p>
<p>Maybe kids in East and West Coast college prep environs know SAT IIs are needed to apply to Ivies and top 25 colleges, but MOST high school seniors (and their guidance counselors) do not. They are certainly not required by the schools that 99.9% of the kids around here attend.</p>
<p>Note: Our son was accepted and will be attending Harvard in the fall.</p>
<p>The UC schools in Cal. require the SAT II, so pretty much every student who has aspirations for UCs or higher will know about and take the SAT IIs.</p>
<p>Well, after my S got into Yale’ EA last December, I could tell who were those 800+ lucky ones. Don’t you think HP had the same info I had? and they did not think it twice to give them offers?</p>
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<p>Which is the very point I’m trying to make. Certain students are given an advantage in the application process despite the fact that some of their fellow applicants would contribute just as much to the quality of the entering class. From an applicant’s perspective, this is not ideal.</p>
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<p>Once the EA offer is made, the student can accept it immediately via internet. So they will know about some who will attend. This is what my D did, obviating the need to complete any other apps. H does not require a deposit upon acceptance, just an answer.</p>
<p>^^^no one ever said one reflects the other(even though to an extent they do)–it is simply that if you want to go to a top top school having an option to apply early is nice. If you are truly convinced you are HP material absolutely apply EA to Yale because its another fabulous school(where else would you apply) Once your qualified, some luck comes into play–so cast a wide net. </p>
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Originally Posted by nell_ann
EA/ED pools at top schools are considered to be stronger than the RD pools. That’s why the EA/ED acceptance rates are higher.
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<p>I am not saying this is not the case to a degree–but how many kids do you think are actually athletes +legacies not too many (10-15% at most)…and I talked to a Yale and U penn admissions rep a few months back and they both said the same thing–early applicants are for the most better qualified. Penn is slightly difference since if you are ED you get a slight boost, but Yale they explicitly said gets no boost for ea.</p>
<p>bandit_TX: Most of the kids I have seen admitted SCEA to any of the SCEA schools have filed anywhere from 0 to 2 additional applications (although some have indeed filed 7 or 8, for the purpose of comparing financial aid packages, after which they went to Harvard anyway regardless of financial aid packages). Obviously, that’s only for the (used to be 2,000, now about 1,350) kids actually accepted.</p>
<p>Because non-SC EA colleges don’t limit the number of EA applications a student can file, there is reason to believe that the 9,000 or so kids who otherwise would have applied EA to Harvard or ED to Princeton or Virginia may have been responsible for many more than 9,000 additional early applications at other colleges. Chicago’s EA applications went up by almost 50%; its total applications went up about 18%. There was a huge shift into EA applications from people who otherwise would have applied EA to Harvard or ED to Princeton, and then RD to Chicago once they were deferred (or not applied at all if they were accepted). Similar EA increases happened at pretty much all of the EA colleges a Harvard applicant might like: Georgetown, Notre Dame, MIT, BC.</p>
<p>That definitely messed with the dynamics at Chicago. In the past, the one thing they knew for certain about any EA applicant was that the applicant had not applied SCEA to HYS or ED to P, even though there was a choice to do so. In terms of Chicago’s ability to “land” that applicant if admitted, that was a pretty important thing to know.</p>
<p>I did not mean to imply before that Harvard’s move away from EA did not work in terms of attracting more successful lower-income applicants. I haven’t seen any information on that. If Harvard did attract more high quality, admittable lower-income applicants, then that would be legitimate success for its policy.</p>
<p>From post #9:
“Actually, TokenAdult, in my acquaintance it is the kids with family income < 60K who are most likely to apply to Harvard and its peers, at least if we’re talking about highly academic kids. The families certainly know that their kids will attend these schools essentially free.”</p>
<p>I’m quite sure that admissions officers at the schools that pulled out of EA will disagree with you. And the admissions officers at schools that still have EA and ED would probably also disagree with you. Most low income families of very bright kids are absolutely clueless that their kids could go to HYPS at almost no cost. So many of these kids go to schools with inadequate college prep counseling, have parents who may have never gone to college themselves, and do not have the kind of support that most parents on CC have provided to their kids. </p>
<p>Although Post #24 is just one anecdote, it represents the typical HS child and parent outside of suburbia (and a few select urban populations.) And…may not even be a low income family! CC parents are quite a self-selected knowledgeable group when it comes to college admissions.</p>
<p>Here is the press release that was sent out when UVA, Princeton and Harvard started their joint recruiting effort:</p>
<p>[Faculty</a> of Arts & Sciences: News and Events](<a href=“http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/admissions_10302007.html]Faculty”>http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/admissions_10302007.html)</p>
<p>And this is from the release issued when Harvard made their decision in 2006 to end EA: </p>
<p>“We are concerned, however, that even our non-binding program contributes to the pressures and inequities of the college admissions process,” Fitzsimmons continued. “Only the more sophisticated students and families look behind the label of ‘early admission’ and distinguish early action from binding early decision programs. Thus students from less advantaged backgrounds either fail to take advantage of early admission because they are less well-advised overall, or they consciously avoid our program on the mistaken assumption that they will be unable to compare financial aid packages.
[Faculty</a> of Arts & Sciences: News and Events](<a href=“http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/admission_09122006.html]Faculty”>http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/admission_09122006.html)</p>
<p>While many of us have focused on the issue of more affluent applicants applying to schools EA and ED…I found it very interesting to re-read these press releases and note that both refer to the high school experience. Two issues were </p>
<p>1) Many students admitted early were slacking off for the rest of the school year (seems odd for students admitted to Harvard…but just shows that many of them are just “regular” teenagers, too!) </p>
<p>2) The pressures of applying early were affecting the junior year and early senior year high school “experience.”</p>