<p>The most recent news reports on the evidence, if true, are pretty damning. This could be a death penalty case.</p>
<p>MA doesn’t have a death penalty. A 1st degree murder conviction is life without parole.</p>
<p>In Massachusetts??? No death penalty here.</p>
<p>North Attleboro may be closer to Providence than Boston, but make no mistake, Bristol County Mass. is “Boston centric”. Heck, so is Providence, for that matter</p>
<p>“Does Massachusetts have the death penalty?”</p>
<p>Why yes it does. A man named Odin Lloyd was recently executed there, for the crime of having the wrong kind of friends.</p>
<p>(Oh, did you mean the Commonwealth of Massachusetts? No, it doesn’t.)</p>
<p>Hernandez has been on the news 24/7 and it is so much overkill. However we in Boston are very proud of our police and very proud of the work they did in Watertown. they put their lives on the line, it was a very scary situation. One policeman dies and another was critically injured.</p>
<p>[Prosecutors:</a> Gum, texts among trail of evidence in Hernandez’s case - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/nfl-hernandez/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]Prosecutors:”>http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/nfl-hernandez/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)</p>
<p>This may be the first time that bubble gum may assist in convicting a murderer.</p>
<p>Ernest Wallace arrested in Florida.</p>
<p>[Aaron</a> Hernandez case – Carlos Ortiz turned over to authorities in Massachusetts - ESPN Boston](<a href=“http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9433012/aaron-hernandez-case-carlos-ortiz-turned-authorities-massachusetts]Aaron”>Aaron Hernandez case -- Carlos Ortiz extradited, Ernest Wallace arrested - ESPN)</p>
<p>Are the odds good to get one to give evidence against the others?</p>
<p>I heard a former prosecutor say something I agreed with. If Hernandez was the shooter, he’s looking at being locked up forever. They’ll roll one or the other to pin him. If one of the other guys is the shooter, maybe Hernandez can roll on him and get a lesser sentence. By lesser, maybe 20 years. (That can mean 10-12 years in prison.) I’m not familiar enough with this kind of sentencing to know, but the number makes sense.</p>
<p>Because there are 3, the prosecutors have a lot of leverage; it becomes a game to turn before the other guy gets the better deal. With 2, the chances of non-cooperation go up. That’s both basic game theory and my experience.</p>
<p>How are they going to prove which one actually pulled the trigger?</p>
<p>This situation is sad in every way I can think of. Not only are there no winners, but it appears no one involved “broke even.”</p>
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<p>Or fails a drug test, even once. Everything else is zero tolerance, why shouldn’t the amazing opportunity to play in the NFL be as well? Or is this just too profitable an industry to have room for zero tolerance?</p>
<p>23 years old, making $40+ million dollars for playing football. He enrolled in college at 17, and entered the draft after his junior year, I believe. He had sketchy acquaintances and failed multiple drug tests. </p>
<p>I love the game of football, really love it, it’s my favorite spectator sport. But at some point the ridiculousness really leaves you shaking your head.</p>
<p>Lergnom - is that a Mass. prosecutor? I’m pretty sure in Massachusetts a felony murder conviction is (or can be argued as) first degree, which would mean automatic life sentence. He doesn’t have to be the triggerman if he is involved in committing a felony which results in the murder, and it seems as though there were several acts on his part that would constitute felony acts (if, in fact, the prosecutors’ allegations are all true - we shall see) and their goal is to take the really big player down. I think that’s why all those gun charges are included, though I was surprised to see the obstruction of justice charge was not (that is also a felony).</p>
<p>If he is the actual triggerman and one of the other guys turns on him, they can go straight first degree premeditated route and not even have to worry about proving felony murder… though I believe they can present either scenario in order to try to get a First Degree conviction.</p>
<p>If they have enough evidence on one or more of the participants, they might have many hands to play. But certainly their case is much stronger with at least one eye witness willing to testify and turn on the other(s). (Especially without the murder weapon).</p>
<p>I’m sure Hernandez’ top of the line defense lawyers will leave no stone unturned, however, so if a deal can be made they may well encourage him to turn on one of the co-conspirators. Or if allegations can be proven untrue or enough reasonable doubt put forth, you never know what can happen.</p>
<p>Now that 2 other arrests have been made “in connection with” the case, I am really wondering where the prosecutors got some of the “this is what was said in the house” & “they had a conversation in the car” allegations from. Is the Florida guy an accessory after the fact, or was he alleged to have been in the car? Is there someone else who hasn’t been named that was in the car? Are there more texts from the victim that haven’t been revealed? Is it all just speculation on the part of the prosecutors (they can pretty much say anything they want at this point).</p>
<p>Mom says her son will be cleared of all charges. Sigh… we all love our children at the end of the day.</p>
<p>I don’t know that this would be felony murder because I’m not aware of a felony committed other than the murder. It could be considered a joint enterprise and that opens the door to turning one or two to get the triggerman. </p>
<p>This raises the question: why turn anyone? Why not just go to convict all? The usual reason is that you don’t want one defendant to create doubt about the extent of his participation - “I had no idea what was going to happen and then he pulled out a gun and shot him.” But another reason is that morally we tend to think the guy who actually did the deed deserves to be singled out. </p>
<p>I think the gun charges were in there because they have pictures of him with the gun and it links him - I guess - to the shell casings found in the rental car, etc. You want the defense to have to defend those counts. The point is that if you don’t charge him, maybe just maybe his counsel can work to keep evidence out of the murder case … but that’s harder to do if the gun itself and the magazines are themselves at issue because you have the right to introduce evidence on those counts. See? The defense has more trouble excluding the gun evidence if he’s charged with that.</p>
<p>Possession of an unlicensed gun is likely a felony (I believe that was one of the charges). Kidnapping is a felony. Criminal conspiracy is definitely a felony, and the prosecutors are claiming Hernandez orchestrated the whole shebang.</p>
<p>He is in a boatload of trouble any which way you look at it, whether he pulled the trigger or not. There are lots of different ways they can present their case against him.</p>
<p>But, there definitely is wiggle room if they can get one guy to finger another as the shooter. That would certainly solidify the evidence against at least one of them. And after all, the entire point of bringing defendant(s) to trial is to convict and punish a murderer on behalf of the poor victim (hopefully it’s not just to convict the most high profile defendant).</p>
<p>Again, surely his lawyers will be on top of all the possible outs, but there might not be any that work.</p>
<p>Rocky, felony murder requires commission of an act that’s a felony. Possession of an unlicensed gun and illegal magazines, etc. is not an act of commission. A conspiracy to commit murder would be, but that hasn’t been charged.</p>
<p>Here is an excerpt from a MA criminal law handbook:</p>
<p>“The prosecution must demonstrate facts to support the same elements necessary to support a charge of felony murder in the first degree; that is, that the defendant committed or attempted to commit a felony, that a killing occurred during the commission or attempted commission of that felony and at substantially the same time and place, and that the felony was inherently dangerous or the defendant acted with a conscious disregard for human life. The difference between first and second-degree felony murder lies in the sentence. If the underlying felony is not punishable by life imprisonment, then felony murder in the second degree “is the appropriate result.” Commonwealth v. Donovan, 422 Mass. 349, 352–53 (1996) (citing Commonwealth v. Rego, 360 Mass. 385, 395 (1996)).”</p>
<p>It’s difficult to see how one person carrying a weapon can be considered as intent by another to commit a felony. Possession is personal; the person carrying the weapon is the guilty party. A standard felony murder is murder during a robbery or attempted robbery.</p>
<p>Felony murder can be proven if a murder occurs during commission of ANY felony, including possession of an illegal weapon (if that’s a felony) during the crime, and certainly during kidnapping or conspiracy - it’s not that narrowly defined of a crime to apply to just robbery (gone bad) or such. </p>
<p>For instance, in Massachusetts, being in a car during a fatal drive-by shooting can result in a felony murder conviction against any person riding in the shooter’s car, even if not the shooter. (which is ironic, since that may be another whole case against Hernandez down the road if the reports about that 2012 drive-by shooting pan out to prove his involvement, which they might, since they just found the suspected vehicle involved parked in his uncle’s house in CT).</p>
<p>But do you have to be charged with an actual underlying felony? (Kidnapping, conspiracy – plus the gun laws in Mass are very strict, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is another felony in that list of current charges.) Or do the prosecutors just have to prove facts/evidence sufficient to support that an underlying felony was in progress to show felony murder? Perhaps a criminal lawyer can weigh in (unless you are one, then I’ll take your word for it). </p>
<p>Now, the fact that they haven’t charged him with kidnapping, conspiracy or obstruction of justice (yet, they can always add more charges later) does tend to suggest that the prosecutors are going for standard first degree murder (premeditated or extreme atrocity). And if that is the case, and he isn’t the shooter, I agree with you that if they can get him to flip and turn on one of the other guys as the shooter, he can certainly lessen his potential conviction and sentence.</p>
<p>There seem to be some indications that there were only the 3 in the car along with the victim, and the accomplice arrested in CT was one of them, as well as the guy in FL who turned himself in. And that the CT guy (right now only facing a gun charge) previously talked to the cops, which is where they got some of the info about the conversations in the car & Hernandez home. Just press reports, so no idea if it’s true.</p>
<p>Meanwhile the Patriots say they are as surprised as the rest of us that it’s a murder charge against Hernandez; they expected obstruction of justice based on previous news reports. Which, if true, would indicate an exceptional job by investigators to keep things under wraps until the charges were read in court this past week.</p>
<p>“Mom says her son will be cleared of all charges.”</p>
<p>OK let’s see a show of hands. Who thinks AH will be cleared of all charges, other than Mrs. Hernandez? Um, I see a hand up in the back. Are you willing to wager on that Attorney Fee?</p>