<p>I think your son should go to court (by himself). It’s likely that if he shows up and is contrite (I wouldn’t argue the radar thing) the judge will give him a slightly lesser charge - carve off some mph or make it a non-moving violation. The judge will also probably give him some kind of stern warning. My older son did this last year in upstate New York - the judge offered to change the speeding ticket to a lesser charge if my son attended an all day AAA driving safety course. I think it was a good learning experience for my son.(The lesser charges might also keep your car insurance premiums down).</p>
<p>Thanks, jrpar. I just noticed that the ticket has the wrong date-- it says it was issued July 12 (not June 12) and the court date is listed as late July (I am guessing he meant late June). So, now DS has to find out what the court date is. Is the fact that the cop wrote the ticket for a month in the future grounds to get it dismissed? That would be nice.</p>
<p>Jym: so sorry; what a pain!! Not sure how it works down there, but we always go to court around here because, in many cases, they will increase the fine and ELIMINATE the points which is great IMO…We don’t get charged court fees for traffic court and they do it extremely fast (even though there is probably a long line when you get there)…</p>
<p>One thought I did have was regarding one of your earlier posts, but I don’t think I’d mention it in court…Unless something has recently changed with technology, you cannot have an accurate radar reading if the police vehicle is in motion…I have no idea why I know this or how I found this out, but an interesting aside to this situation…</p>
<p>The only speeding ticket I have ever received was when I was in an unfamiliar neighborhood and the speed limit changed abruptly from 40 to 25 (and the cop was sitting 100 yards down the road pulling over multiple cars at a time)…If your son goes to court, he may want to figure out what he is going to say to the judge in case he asks him why he was speeding…In my case, I was the 10th person that night who was pulled over for the same reason in the same spot…the judge just laughed…</p>
<p>Way back when my kids were small, I was going uphill from a stoplight on a highway in an ancient car that had basically forgotten how to accelerate. Pulled over for going over speed limit, but I knew I’d never been anywhere near it (I had been watching the speedometer to see when or if we were ever going to get to cruising speed.)</p>
<p>Went to night court, testified about what the car was capable of and what it wasn’t, and what other cars were around me; cross-examined the policeman to show that he may well have picked up the wrong car (the radar and the ticketing police were not the same ones). Looked professional and sincere. Judge (very funny young man–reminded me of the guy in the old TV show Night Court), hemmed and hawed and made it clear he couldn’t out and out disagree with the officer even if he knew there’d been a mistake, so he “suspended” the charge–no fine, no points, just 15 dollar court cost, which I gladly paid.</p>
<p>Another time, I actually had gone over the speed limit (I’m generally a rather slow driver, but I’d just left a store right before the point where the speed limit rose, and I’d hit the higher speed too soon.) Was visibly mortified with my dumb-ness, kept apologizing to the policman, berating myself for my mistake, etc. Finally, he said, “look, I’m going to change it to no seatbelt, even though you have yours on. No one has ever apologized to me before when I pulled them over.” Again, no points, small fine. Sincerity and manners really help!</p>
<p>(Note: the above might work better for a middleaged woman than a kid. For your son, I have known people who went to court over 16 mph type summonses and gotten it lowered just by asking ahead of time to talk to the prosecutor. That takes it from 4 points to 2 points in my state–big difference.)</p>
<p>Thanks Rodney.
I’ve read that he shouldnt admit guilt, but in all honesty he was probably going too fast, just not as fast as they are claiming. I don’t have a problem with his getting a reduced speed ticket and paying the fine (they are expensive around here) and even support his having to take a class. The work he is having to put into this is, IMO more significant than just blowing it off, paying the fine and then having our insu rates go up. Any suggestions for what he should say or how he should word it, Rodney? What did you say that made the judge laugh?</p>
<p>In regards to Rodney’s mention of reasons:</p>
<p>This exchange occurred earlier that night with that same judge who reminded me of Harry Anderson on Night Court:</p>
<p>Judge: why were you going 100mph?
Young Man: to impress my girlfriend.
Judge: Next time, try flowers.</p>
<p>Ironically, Garland, DS had returned earlier that day from being videotaped (for a segment to be aired on our local NBC affiliate) at the place he does volunteer work for which he won a big community service award. Its not relevant, but it’d be nice to weave into the conversation to show that he isnt a bad kid.</p>
<p>
Probably not. If you tired to fight a ticket on those grounds you’d have to testify that in fact the incident did not occur when the policeman testifies that it did (e.g. what he would say in court, not on the ticket). It’s really easy for the police to show that you’d be lying in that case since there are going to be other records of the incident (e.g. the dispatcher records kept back at the station, computer records of them running the plates, etc.). Getting caught lying in court is generally not a good idea.</p>
<p>The only time such errors on the ticket can really get you off is if there are major contradictions between how the policeman testifies and what he writes in the evidence section of the ticket. For example if he testifies that he used a stopwatch to check the speed, but the ticket says a radar gun was used then that could be used against the police… but a typo with the date, not really. </p>
<p>
I don’t think these sort of arguments really work… especially for something like a speeding ticket. If you’re speeding then you’re speeding… what charities one works for is irrelevant.</p>
<p>If you pay the ticket then at least you have the comfort of knowing what’s going to happen. If you go to court then things could get reduced but they probably stand at least an equal chance of getting a stiffer penalty for annoying the judge and wasting court time. </p>
<p>I would only go to court if you have actual grounds for fighting the charge, but it doesn’t sound like you have any.</p>
<p>jym: It wasn’t what I said, it was the fact that I was the 10th person that night that was pulled over at the same location…No, I wasn’t proposing a lie…I was proposing “I had no idea that I was above the speed limit at that location”…Was he supposedly doing 41 in a 25? Extremely easy to do without even thinking…(try driving 25 MPH on an empty road…takes amazing concentration—he could say that he thought the speed limit was 35…that was actually what happened to me…)</p>
<p>81 in a 65? A little more difficult to argue…</p>
<p>For those who are suggesting that it is easier to just pay the ticket, consider the points on the insurance…for those of us where points REALLY matter on insurance costs, the benefit of going to court is PRICELESS…</p>
<p>This is really about reducing the points, not trying to argue the fine…Hope that helps!</p>
<p>The expert weighing in here. Take my advice. (lawyer and parent of a kid who cornered the market on speeding tickets)</p>
<ol>
<li>Do not fight it- you will not win. Wrong date, bad radar- none of this matters and will just **** off the court.</li>
<li>Do not “just pay it”. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. That is max consequences to his license and your insurance.</li>
<li>CALL THE COURT. It is not EASY to call the court- you are bounced all over the place. He (or you) need to tell them it is a first time teenage offense and ask what the options are for driving school and a subsequent dismissal. This is the way to go. Online driving courses are easy and painless OR some communities have special programs (a Saturday morning or something). In our community the judge addresses teenage drivers separately in court- and a parent is required to appear with them. They are given a one-time opportunity to do the community driving class (which is actually quite good- I’ve had to do it myself) and then the fine is paid and the ticket does not go on their record.</li>
</ol>
<p>For first time offenses it is very common here to get PBJ and court costs. Traffic class is usually added for a minor. I have heard drivers instructed by the judge to plead “guilty with explanation.” And the explanation is usually that the driver just did not realize they were speeding. They need to be dressed appropiately and be very respectful. If the driver receives another ticket within the year he then get both tickts back to be charged with. If a driver pleads guilty the judge has no choice but find him so. If the plea is not guilty you can bet the judge will believe the police officer.</p>
<p>Good Luck.</p>
<p>D went to court yesterday for a ticket. Officer no-showed so she was found not guilty. More importantly, she and my wife said that the judge only gave PBJ to people who plead (pleaded?) guilty. He refused to give PBJ to anyone who would not admit their guilt.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Revising my earlier comment, I wouldn’t fight the charge (as was being discussed earlier) but the recommendations of pleading guilty and hoping for a reduced sentence is probably OK. But the key is to be humble and don’t take the “he’s a good kid go easy on him” argument… that’s not humble it’s pretentious. I’m sure he is a good kid, but he was still speeding. </p>
<p>Admit full guilt and simply point out that the court take into consideration that it’s his first offense. Don’t bother with the whole “he works for charities” nonsense (that’s great, but irrelevant here) or “he’s a good kid” lines. Simply say he screwed up, he accepts that he made a mistake, point out that it was his first offense and that he leaned his lesson and let the court take it from there. </p>
<p>With that strategy it’s very unlikely they would hit your harder, but there’s a good chance they’ll lower the penalties.</p>
<p>In Ohio you don’t have a choice. Under 18 you go to court. Wish we could have gotten office with just paying the fine… lol</p>
<p>These things vary so much from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and from judge to judge that what has happened to other people is almost meaningless - unless it is someone who appeared before the same judge. In this area, it is very common to go to court, plead guilty with explanation, and get PBJ. I have done it twice, over a 25 year period. I would talk to a lawyer who knows traffic court and the judges. That doesn’t mean I would bring a lawyer into court, but it is best to know what is typically done in these circumstances in your jurisdiction. It is worth paying whatever it takes to not get the points.</p>
<p>Humility always pays.</p>
<p>Your son should call the police station, go down and speak with the officer ahead of time. I have heard that sometimes if you are really humble, admit that you did the wrong thing, and are truly sorry, they can be nice and agree to not be as harsh.</p>
<p>Also, in court, your son should show up 30 minutes early, and speak with the police officer and prosecutor, and once again in his most apologetic, non-argumentative and humble voice, admit to the mistake, and ask for some clemency. Offer to do community service and a class.</p>
<p>If this is his first speeding ticket, depending on your insurance co., even if he gets 2 points, it may NOT result in an increase in insurance rates. We have Geico, and our rates did not go up. And in 3 years it is erased----can he stay clean for 3 years?</p>
<p>
I suppose ultimately that’s really the most important issue here. If he goes out an gets another ticket then any effort put into reducing the penalties for this offense will be moot. Not only will he almost certainly get points next time, but they very well may count this first offense too. Obviously it depends on the judge, but they could (and I would) ‘suspend’ the points. If he gets no more tickets then he’s clean, but if he gets another then he gets points for the new ticket and for this one too.</p>
<p>Can he start a defensive driving course online now, since the family wants him to? Then whenever he is describing his thoughts on the situation, he can say he’s already in it. Just to be a step ahead. (unless the knowledgable lawyers who post here say that’s a mistake as if admitting guilt in advance??)</p>
<p>Jym, commendations on handling this. We know he’s a good kid. I suppose there’s a place for saying that in court. The problem is – and I figure any judge knows this – prominent citizens also speed and do damage to other people. So focus on the consequences relevant to driving behavior. Circling back to my idea: start the driving re-education by himself, showing that his good studentness caused him to reflect and begin this process already.</p>
<p>I’ve also got a good kid but his problem is always leaving too late for appointments. Once I was with him in the car, ridesharing, and saw that his brinksmanship caused him to speed in our neighborhood. The struggle was his through-the-day time management, and he thought he could make it up on the suburban streets. That’s something as a parent we can continue to harp upon. Leave earlier for your appointments.</p>
<p>Thanks, MOWC. I defer to your judgement and experience! I will ask DS (when he calls to find out what is the correct court date is) to ask those questions. From what I’ve seen so far, ther is no automatic way to get the ticket reduced/dismissed other than pleading nolo, which isn’t advised in these situations (they say to “save” this option for any possible bigger problem :o) Personally, I think that DS having to go through this whole process is a learning experience for him. Not sure how to get the deferred judgement (I’d never heard the PBJ term before, other than as my past lunch item!) but he’ll be required to look into all this and find out the procedure, if available.</p>
<p>As an aside, just to clarify rocketman, no one was talking about lying or somehow altering the truth. But, in other legal matters (depositions, etc) the issue of mistakes in documentation has come up— when there is an error, a typo or something in a report, the comment is sometimes made that if there is one error made, how do they know there weren’t other errors made. It was just a thought.</p>
<p>Thanks, p3t and choco. We had considered having him do the class in advance- but we also need to figure out when the court date is (did the officer write July instead of June on that part too?) Not sure if it looks better or not to do the class in advance. Any thoughts, those of you with experience in these matters?</p>