<p>This topic reminds me of what I was going through when I was applying to college. I hesitated a long time between Actuarial Science and Engineering… In the end, I chose Electrical Engineering (I’m currently in my junior year) and I’m not sure yet if I truly want to work in that field. Actuarial Science has still remained in my thoughts and I’m not sure of exactly what I will do after I’m done with my engineering degree.</p>
<p>If you’re looking for an engineering major that can still get you back into the world of finance, you may want to consider Operations Research/Information/Industrial Engineering. It’s not a widely offered major, but available at several schools of engineering and depends highly on math and statistics to help model solutions to real-life problems in many industries, including transportation, finance, and manufacturing. Depending on how much science/manufacturing you want though, be careful of Industrial Engineering programs.</p>
<p>hey wayne, what kind of math classes would you recommend a person take if they want to do actuarial work? Like I understand probability, stat classes, are helpful, but which classes in college typically offer that kind of stuff (I specifically ask for the name because it’s hard to tell whether something like number analysis or something like that will have probability involved in it)? I’ve heard combinatorics is a good one, but does stuff like vector calc, diff eq, and such help as well? Also, I’m interested in mathematical/computational physics, so since physics classes are math heavy and involve a lot of problem solving, could those be good classes to take as well if one is interested in it especially?</p>
<p>From what I’ve heard, you’re not supposed to pass all the exams when you’re trying to become an actuary out of college. Most of them have passed 0-3 exams with an internship or so, from what I’ve heard.</p>
<p>you can take/pass the exams whenever you want</p>
<p>So then if a person is not majoring in Actuarial Sciences then how is he supposed to prepare for the exams? I’m thinking of going into the field but I’m confused about what to major in. I first preferred doing the actual major called “Actuarial Science” but very few colleges offer it and like a person said before, it is too narrow of a major.</p>
<p>I love Math and I also enjoy Economics.</p>
<p>[Actuarial</a> Outpost - Actuarial Discussion, Actuary Jobs, Links and more - Powered by vBulletin](<a href=“http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/]Actuarial”>http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/)
theres lots of study guides for the exams</p>
<p>Xav, I might be almost perfect to answer your question. I long in high school had wondered about how it would be to be a professor of mathematics and do research for a living. I dismissed this on the basis of my parents believing it to be a very difficult career path to succeed at, in fact it’s played out to be too difficult for words. </p>
<p>The bottom line is that when you actually take math courses in college, you’ll realize what kinds of math interest you. There is, in fact, very little math used in standard engineering curricula. This is coming from someone having seen the curriculum at one of the top engineering schools in the country, and knowing personally a math graduate student who studied EECS, math and economics at MIT (as an undergrad) and said he was vastly disappointed in the level of math that was actually used there. </p>
<p>Pure math is very different from applied math. I tried to convince myself that I could like applied math and engineering, but it was heavily to no avail, but then again, everyone around me could tell very easily what kind of person I am, and that pure math was the clear fit.</p>
<p>Don’t force the actuary thing or engineering now. If you want to get a PhD in math, do it. Do what satisfies you now. But, keep career options in mind, and keep your head realistic.
If you want an academic position, aim for it, but be open to shifting gears. If you’re open, you won’t be disappointed later, and you’ll also study what you like in school. Definitely don’t try to force engineering.</p>
<p>Feel free to ask me about details via PM if you wish. I definitely had similar considerations.</p>
<p>I don’t think I see myself as a Professor of Mathematics. I think at most, I’d upper-level courses, but regardless: It’s not exactly appetizing. I suppose I’ll find just how much I like or dislike Applied Math once I get to it. </p>
<p>Keeping my head realistic is kinda why I’m doing this. Realistically, if I’m not open to get a job as a math teacher, I’m seeing a degree in Mathematics as not too desirable. It’s a matter of taking the classes I want, then realizing that unless I teach, I will be starving( and considering how things are, teaching is not even that well off now). I think that, as much as I’d prefer not to, I’ll have to go to college and find out the hard way what path is for me.</p>
<p>If you’re a mathematically inclined person who doesn’t care as much for the craziest pure mathematics out there, then you probably have the easiest time ahead of you making it in a good career. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Forgive me if I’m incorrect in my assessment, but you may be believing the so-called “common myth,” which I’ll admit I once did. Very few of the math majors at any top notch school will actually aim actively to be teachers, they probably will do math along with something else. Remember that most jobs aren’t about what you majored in, they’re about how trained you are to be able to adapt to an employer’s wants. For instance, a math major who is skilled with computers can work for a number of places. Being an actuary is another option of course. If you actually are designed to do a math major, an engineering major could vastly frustrate you, so yes – the only way is to take courses in college and figure it out. </p>
<p>If you don’t see yourself as a math professor, you certainly won’t become one, and it’s good that you already have thought about this.</p>
<p>Pardon the delayed response. Other things were taking my time (MAO competition on Pi day, haha) and I had to think of a proper response.</p>
<p>I like Pure math, but I don’t like academia. I rather just major in something other than that, and take it as a hobby of sorts(I’m a nerd in that regard xD). As for this “common myth”, I don’t know. I suppose to a certain extent I do belief, just a little different as I came to be aware that there was Applied Math and Pure Math as majors. I think the latter is the traditional “academia or nothing” math major. As for Applied Math, though, I don’t know. I had considered that but, once again, I was unsure of its prospect. If Applied Math just ended up doing what engineers, but facing tougher competition since I wouldn’t have majored in Engineering, then why bother?</p>
<p>In a sense, one of the things I like about engineering is that it is kinda exciting. I won’t feel like I’m wasting my life doing nothing remotely productive. As an Actuary, I’d be finding out how much money should a person get from a pension. : / . Not exactly the most exciting career ever. I thought Engineering would be nice since I’d explore the problem-solving I long for, using math, and getting pay. But lately, with the latter two being shut down almost exclusively, I think I might be deluding myself, hence my doubts. When I found about Applied Math, I was unsure if it was any different than Engineering. I’m still kind of unsure if it’s any different from Engineering. Like, what kind of internships could I possibly get?</p>
<p>I guess what I truly seek out of a career would be: 1) Problem-solving, 2) Extensive use of math (or at least some), 3) decent pay. Now I’m just trying to find what major in college would give me the ability to get such a career.</p>
<p>Looking through all the responds…</p>
<p>I would say actuary is the a good career for you.</p>
<p>I want to emphasize something here on actuary:
- Problem-solving is a must (not even an option). </p>
<p>As current actuarial intern, I observe that actuaries (who passed all the exams requirements and have 20+ years experience, they are smart smart smart people who love math, who constantly use math (complex modeling to predict the future like assessing operational risk, investment risk,financial risk… alright this sound fancy and general so let me refer to some specific examples of their work). </p>
<p>In general, government regulates all the licensed insurance firms to protect the consumers by making sure they follow 2 things:
a. Loss ratio >= 60%, loss ratio is defined as aggregate claimed paid / aggregate premium collected. Now this seems like a trivial equation but also remember that actuaries do not just look at the past, they predict the future so they have to use complex probability modeling to determine the loss ratio in the future years and make the trends. How would they know future claims or future premium? They have to rely on some assumptions and some complex math like regression. However, there is no exact formula that they can use so they have to model this by some valid and reliable method that must follow the law and there are some standards like NAIC standards practise of actuary work. </p>
<p>b. These insurance firms also have to let the government know that they have enough reserve to pay for anticipated future claims. Again, the work behind this is really complex math. </p>
<p>In summary, as actuary working in government, you regulates the insurance firms plus others; for actuary working in insurance firms, you need to do these filings (the work that not just involve lots of complex math but also complex laws and regulations) plus many other tasks that involve math. </p>
<ol>
<li>More than extensive use of math.
Think about why do they require us to pass so many exams? Also, these exams are really crazy math… I can surely bet that people who don’t love math will not pass these exams or go into this field.
For exam 1: You need to know probability solidly.
For exam 2: You need to know the math that goes behind finance so you apply these big complex math concepts to analyze cash flow to figure out rate of return, net present value, net future value, amortization, bond (this isn’t easy as it sound), balance etc plus a new advanced topic “derivative” which is generally taught in “GRADUATE” level financial engineering course.
and then many more following exams assume the knowledge of 1 and 2 so they will be even harder to pass.
All these exams use extensive math!
Now, let give you some #, the passing rate for many of these exams is about 50% or so. Also, the people who take these exams generally have solid math background and usually math/statistics majors and what only about 50% pass? These exams are tough, not only do you have to know math, but you have to know math even when you sleep!
Check <a href=“http://www.soa.org%5B/url%5D”>www.soa.org</a> for more information on exam registration, samples of exams, passing rates …etc </li>
</ol>
<p>3) decent pay. Let me give you a reliable source for actuary salary.
[Actuary</a> Salary Survey - actuary jobs - D.W. Simpson & Company, Inc. , actuarial, actuaries, Employment, Salaries, Insurance, Statistics, Mathematics, FCAS, ACAS, ASA, FSA, Student, FCIA, FIA](<a href=“http://www.dwsimpson.com/salary.html]Actuary”>http://www.dwsimpson.com/salary.html)
Geneally, starting out with 1 exam plus no experience to all the way up being ASA or FSA.
The range is about $50,000 to $166,000. This also depends on the employers, the location, experience etc</p>
<p>Yeah, as many have mentioned, actuary has been suggested as one of the best profession by various sources. </p>
<hr>
<p>My background:
UCLA math/accounting/management (joint major from math and business department) alumni.
USC graduate student in industrial engineering.
Actuary wanna-be (I passed exam 1 and preparing for exam 2)
Actuarial intern in CA government.</p>
<p>Hey Kevin, did you pass Exam 1 on your first try? </p>
<p>How long did you study for it? (roughly)</p>
<p>What score is needed to pass, and what score did you get?</p>
<p>You said Probability is important for 1 and Finance is important for 2, but is any Calculus needed?</p>
<p>^Judging by a practice test, I’d say there’s Calculus. I saw a pretty mean Triple Integral in it.</p>
<p>Lil Wayne Fan:
I passed actuarial first exam on my 2nd trial. To make long story short, I under-estimated the difficulty of the test in the first time because I think I had a very solid math background (straight A from calculus to upper division differential equation) so I didn’t do much practise before the 1st time and thus failed. I retook it in the second time about half year later (I did study here and there whenever i want, didn’t actually count the time… like may be once a week or sometimes 3 days a week for few hours… etc) </p>
<p>The first exam is similar to an upper division probability course but math course is more theory based while this exam is more like applying the concepts in the context of insurance and risk management. (this test is not at the lower division probability level; it requires deeper understanding than the so called introductory probability). It requires calculus, mainly single and double integration especially involving e^x… lots of exponential distribution with 1, 2 or more variables (the calculation is messy once you have more than 2 ormore variables, very easy to make mistakes so becareful). Also, from my observation, the real exam is much harder than the practise exam but keep practising with it can lead you the right way to study! </p>
<p>For the 2nd exam that i’m practising, TONS of SERIES!!! You need solid understanding on the common series especially geometric ones to analyze the cash flow. 1 simple example with 1 simple cash flow:
present value = Future value (1 + interest)^(-# of years from now to the future) .
As you have more than 1 cash flow, you would have a series so it becomes:
NET present value = future cash flow 1 (1+interest)^(-n1) + future cash flow 2 (1+ interest)^(-n2) + … + future cash flow y (1+ interest)^(-ny)…+ may go to infinity (if so it it is called perpetual cash flow)
This is the 1 of the most useful concept that applies to different financial analysis like mortgage, bond, valuation of this and that …
Beside that, we would have an advanced topics called “derivative”. Let put it this way, Wall Street people like hedge fund managers use all these concepts in this topic. </p>
<p>For example 3 or 4, everything is more and more applied to specific area based on probability and financial math. </p>
<p>Also, 1 tips for you all, do NOT UNDER-estimate the test! It is not as easy to pass it as you might think! However, do not give up when you fail. Lots of people have failed at least 1 time. I personally know many great students who failed in their first trial including math majors with 3.7+ or higher so better prepare well for it before you register the exam with 175 dollars! Also check your school, they might have reinbursement if you pass the exam! </p>
<p>Anyone who want to challenge, who love math, who want to use extensive math in the work, who want to earn good salary, who want to enjoy the work…actuary is really the career for you! It is really dynamic path that requires you lots of skills (statistics, finance, some accounting, some laws, some communication, and of course crazy math modeling).</p>
<p>About passing scores:
The scale range from 1 to 10. You need a 6 to pass but 6 does NOT mean 60%. The test has about 30 questions, the general thumb rule of passing is 21 (like a magic # or something) but the actual # of correct answers required to pass really depends on specific exam at specific time. You can learn more at <a href=“http://www.soa.org%5B/url%5D”>www.soa.org</a> .
For my score, of course I got higher than a 6 to pass but sorry i don’t want to disclose that information in the public here.</p>
<p>I really hope I bring some helpful information to you who are considering joining actuary profession. Let me know how you choose your major… are you still going for engineering or actuary now?</p>
<p>I’m trying to make this decision right now: EE/ECE at UT Austin or Mathematics with the Actuarial Option… Which path will involve more math and also which path in your opinion is easier in terms of undergraduate classes? Also, how hard is it for a person who majored in EE to pass the the actuarial exams? Would he have to take additional classes such as finance, economics, and other business related classes?</p>
<p>I would say the difficulty in both engineering department and math department is comparably about the same level. Math is more theory (proofs) based while EE is more applied. However, this is just my opinion… it is rather a subjective opinion!</p>
<p>For actuary exams, you do NOT have to major in a specific program. However, math/statistics majors would better serve you to prepare for the exams. You do NOT have to take any specific courses even though some math courses would definitely help. </p>
<p>For many test takers, I would say majority rely on self-studying. Also, information on practise materials is readily available on the internet. </p>
<p>Just some advices for undergraduates, you should focus in 1 field rather than many fields and choose your field carefully.</p>
<p>What is the rate at which most people pass the exams at? Most people probably have the first two exams passed during college right? Also how many exams are there total? On average, how long would it take to reach the Fellow position either FCAS or FSA? On average, how long would it take to reach the Associate position assuming the first two exams are passed during college?</p>
<p>I don’t know the specific statistics of how quickly people pass but there is specific statistics on the [SOA</a> - Society Of Actuaries](<a href=“http://www.soa.org%5DSOA”>http://www.soa.org) that shows you specifically the passing rate for each exam (it average around 50%). People who first time take it are usually juniors or seniors in college and who major in math so the population of test takers are quantitative inclined and not general like the test takers in the SAT or GRE. </p>
<p>In US, math/statistics majors who graduate tend to have 0 or 1 exam passed; however you might see some extraordinary people who pass 2-3 exams before they graduate (the president of actuarial club at UCLA passed 3, for example) and you will rarely or may never see someone with 4 exams on the belt before they graduate. In Canada, I heard that students do much better with 2-4 exams passed before they graduate (competitive there i guess).</p>
<p>For the exam requirement, please take a look at this:
[SOA</a> - Exams and Requirements](<a href=“http://www.soa.org/education/exam-req/]SOA”>http://www.soa.org/education/exam-req/)</p>