Sounds like I expressed my annoyance at a platitude with one of my own. 
I had no legit basis to say “vast majority.” And I know there are some schools with no ED advantage for unhooked, D26 applied to one RD. And, there are some where there is advantage. I will try not to platitude more on my platitude thread.
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It would not be surprising if a common reason for NPC inaccuracy were:
- Student’s parents are divorced.
- College uses both divorced parents’ finances for calculating financial aid.
- Student or parent using the NPC includes only one parent’s finances, getting an unrealistically optimistic result.
If colleges which use both divorced parents’ finances prominently stated that on their NPCs, that might reduce the above kinds of errors.
The other problem with using the NPC in this situation is that whoever using the NPC tends to know the finances of at most one parent, since the two divorced parents are unlikely to be willing to share their finances with each other. So the other parent finances may be an inaccurate guess when they are included.
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Not sure if this counts:
“We are need-blind.”
Which means the admission office doesn’t see the FAFSA/CSS/IDOC documents and won’t ask the financial aid office for copies. But it does see whether the student applies for financial aid, whether they attend a public or private high school, how costly are their ECs, where their parents went to school, and what they do for a living. If needed, the admission office can also look up the home value using say Zillow (yes, some schools don’t consider primary residence).
If need-blind schools are indeed need-blind, how come there isn’t a higher variation in percentage of students who receive some aid across years? Why couldn’t there be, oops, turns out this year we admitted way too many kids who need financial aid (or way too few).
Perhaps I’m just being unjustifiedly cynical..
You aren’t being cynical. Their systems can data mine and calculate just what it will take to get you to say yes
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They are need-blind for individual applicants, but have to be need-aware for the aggregate class for budget planning purposes. They know that every college admission attribute has some correlation to financial aid need, so adjusting the priority for each attribute has a known effect on the aggregate financial aid need, even if some individual applicants/admits are outliers (e.g. the legacy from a poor family, or the first-generation-to-college student with wealthy parents). Of course, less selective or open admission colleges may not have that much control over the characteristics of their students.
A related one regarding “need blind” is the claim that there are only about 100 “need blind” colleges in the US, an obviously false claim.
This raises a good point.
You have to list the parents occupation on the common app. Do the AO’s see that information?
Does that influence their decision if you have 2 equally good candidates and who they push for in the committee meeting?
Parent occupation is not a required field on common app. Parent education level is required. At the school where I work, we do see this info. I have not seen it used in the admissions decision, ever.
Interesting. I swear both my kids asked us for that information when filling out the common app. But I couldve been mistaken.
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The question is there, it’s just not required/mandatory.
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Wouldn’t it be indirectly used by colleges that consider first-generation-to-college?
A lot of schools have their own applications and this information was not asked for on either of my kids’ applications. I did have to fill out the FAFSA, but in the olden days that was long after the applications (was after Jan 1) and both had been accepted to their schools by then.
One kid was accepted on an application submitted by her coach so had absolutely NO information on me or my level of education or my job, and very little info about daughter. I think daughter had given the coach an early ACT report and maybe a hs transcript? It was definitely a need blind school.
Same with other daughter. The application asked for minimal information, and I don’t think anything about parents (except if your parent graduated from Wyoming, you got instate tuition).
Many kids on CC complete the common app, but many NOT on CC don’t, so it isn’t possible to know what school do with info on the common app or on the financial aid forms. At my kids’ hs, most kids did not do common app because most were only applying to Florida schools so used those apps.
Yes, I should have been more clear I was talking about parental jobs.
Interestingly, there is a theory that platitudes can be bad when intended to terminate further reflection or discussion, but good when intended to serve as a starting point for a deeper reflection/discussion.
So like in my mind, a bad version of the lottery sort of platitude would encourage people to think of admissions decisions as subject to the whims of an individual. “It all depends on what your reader had for breakfast,” that sort of thing. A better version might emphasize that admissions decisions can be hard to predict because while deliberative, they involve a lot of considerations that are not transparent to those outside the process. “Admissions reflect complex institutional priorities,” say.
Or contrast, “A balanced list is necessary,” with, “A balanced list can be helpful.” I agree the former is implying an unwarranted rigidity, but maybe not so much the latter.
I guess my point is we can choose what we do with these sorts of sentiments, and generally the more helpful choices involve inviting an individualized discussions, with open-minded reflection on all sides.
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I have seen cases where a students safety was something on the order of UT Austin (instate, auto-admit) or McGill (in-province, strong high school student). In these cases, with safeties that are this good, I am not sure that a balanced list really is needed at all.
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To put a finer point on this, while others may not classify my D26’s safety as as good as UT Austin or McGill, one of her safeties is tied as her #1 choice school, is uber affordable for us, and we as parents are also excited about the school for her. So it was as good as it gets for her, regardless of the brand or how the school might be perceived by others. Because she likes it so much, we also felt balance was a useless concept for her. She could just apply to other schools she’d want to go to as much (or close to it) without regard to selectivity. Whether the rest were all reaches, all safeties or any other combo, she’d be psyched about where she ended up. Turns out there was one reach and one target she likes as much as the safety, but not more. She very well may choose the safety over those even if she gets into them (her counselor’s bet was that she will).
Edit: I recognize that Niceunparticularnman said a balanced list “can” be helpful, which is true and D26s experience is not inconsistent with that. It “can” be helpful, it was not for her, but can be for a lot of people.
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This is all that really matters.
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I actually think they frequently do say they can pay, and respondents do still bring up costs. I think that was thumper’s point. Some posters on here seem not to believe people are willing to pay the full cost and aren’t looking to minimize cost or “maximize ROI or value” (by whatever metric).
That said, some are indeed vague.
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Seems like that would shorten the application list significantly. If tied for #1, then would her only other applications be to the other tied for #1 schools?
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That platitude is really code for “having enough targets and safeties” in my mind… the vast majority of kids have enough reaches. (Weirdly enough my 25 had little interest in reaches).
My least favorite advice personally is when I hear things from (public) school counselors and adults to kids to calm them down (we are in a high-stress area) that are pretty much lies because the people don’t want to actually explain the nuance.
”APs don’t matter.” — Well, yes, they do for admissions, but no, you don’t have to take every one. The score may or may not matter at the university you chose to attend.
”Pretty much all schools are still test optional.” – Well, yes, that is true statistically, but not helpful if you are looking at the top 20s or are desperate for schools in FL or whatever.
”Major choice doesn’t matter/ just switch later” (EEK, not always so easy at some schools).
And TOTALLY agree that the top 20s are not really a lottery. It is not random - the candidates really are not ALL equal. Many really do have no shot, even if they are great students.
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She could have done that, but she ended up (or will end up as one is not done) applying to 8 schools. The three tied for #1, two she liked only slightly less (a safety and a target), two that she liked well enough but required zero extra work other then common app and were free (these were why not apps, both safeties), and an in state safety that I honestly still don’t know why she applied to as there is almost zero chance she will go there. Final list is 5 safeties, 2 targets, one reach.
If it were me, I would have applied to the three and been done.
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