<p>I am thinking adcoms view apps online in which case they see everything. But certainly they see whether you have checked the ED/EA box or the RD box. </p>
<p>Probably does not affect the application in all cases but with all the various rules most students have the option of submitting early apps to more than one school. In my child’s case she will most likely submit 3 early action applications. But there is another school high on her list that only offers SCEA. She will not submit under that plan as it is a reach school and she doesn’t want to give up the possible early advantage at 3 other schools that she likes a lot. But there is no way she will submit an application to the SCEA school before November 1st and check the RD box. They could very well assume, especially if you are not waiting to compare FA offers, that they are lower on your list. Wait until January 1st RD deadline and let them entertain the idea you were unsuccessful during the early round and morel likely to accept an offer. I think this is even more important with the other schools on her list that are not reaches, as it is those schools who are most concerned with yield.</p>
<p>“I think for schools concerned with yield, filing an RD app at the time the their early app is due is a blatant signal they are lower down on your list.”</p>
<p>That makes zero sense to me. It’s not as though they start reading the RD apps the moment they hit the door. Like anyone else who has to manage a rolling workload, at the time the early apps are due, they’re focusing on those reading THOSE apps to decide on that pool. It seems only common sense that all that is happening with RD apps that happen to arrive during that time is that they’re set aside for consideration later on. I think it’s more than a little odd to think that they’re reading them and mentally noting “a-HA, Janie in Akron must not like us very much, that’s why she got us her application so quickly; I’ll make sure to ding her when I get back around to the RD apps a few months from now.”</p>
<p>I think it’s exceptionally smart for the STUDENT to get as far as possible on the RD apps so he doesn’t have to start from scratch while feeling low from an early rejection, but what does the school care when an RD app comes in, so long as it’s set and ready to go when their reading process starts?</p>
<p>If such a place existed, any school THAT concerned about yield management would be a no-fly zone for me because I’d hate to see my kid attend a school that I would know from the jump is run by people who are irrational. </p>
<p>"What I am saying is that for full pay students, why would you file an RD app around the time early apps are due? It is a clear signal to the school that they are not your first choice. You are foregoing any early option they offer even though your app is competed and ready to submit. "</p>
<p>What % of applicants applying to elite schools (however one defines those) apply to ANY elite school using an ED/EA/SCEA choice? (Note I’m NOT asking what % of applications at any given elite school are some form of EA; I know that’s common-data-set available, so please don’t cite that - it won’t answer the question. I am asking what % of applicants to elite schools use some EA choice to at least one elite school.) My guess is that it’s relatively low – CC is a bubble where everyone knows about early action options but I don’t think that’s universal.</p>
<p>No school of the caliber of Dartmouth is going to sort their applications with an eye towards yield. They either want your kid or they don’t. Your kid either meets a strategic need in the class or he/she doesn’t. All the gaming and the timing that goes on with parents is absolutely absurd.</p>
<p>I know so many families who think there is an “ED card” and you either play it or you don’t like some giant poker game. The very rare exceptions (Penn if you are a legacy, for example) are VERY transparent about it- we heard a Penn adcom announce it to a crowded auditorium. If you are a legacy, apply ED. Otherwise, you will be evaluated like everyone else. The schools aren’t hiding out in a cave letting people guess about the ED/Yield mystery.</p>
<p>There are thousands of kids who don’t apply to their top choice school early… mainly because they are “getting it together” in mid-November which is the timeframe from many HS’s. </p>
<p>And Harvest- I think your advice is dead wrong unless you have a credible source. Colleges admit that they get pieces of the applications in lumps- so even if your kid pushes “send” in November for an RD application, the scores may arrive in January, the transcript may arrive in February, the recommendations may have been sitting in a pile of mail that arrived Christmas week and gets sorted by Valentine’s day.</p>
<p>A neighbor of mine got a follow up email from the Princeton adcom (the neighborhood was shocked) in early March to say that the application was incomplete (kid had sent his part, kid had sent scores, the GC had “forgotten” to send the transcript-- this was from a HS that had never had a kid go to Princeton and the guidance department was particularly clueless…). Princeton was his first choice although he’d never heard of early action/early decision. Kid got the GC to send the transcript the next day and the kid was admitted three days later (weeks ahead of the “official decision”).</p>
<p>So they get to it when they get to it. Stuff sits in a pile. Eventually the piles are gone. No strategy required.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine this kid NOT applying to D if it’s her clear first choice and if the family knows they can afford what the aid will be.</p>
<p>It IS exceptionally smart for a student to get as far as possible and even complete an RD application as early s possible. But what possible benefit is there to filing that app before November 1st to a school that supports an early admit program? It is just a message that they might not be all that high on your list. For the top 25 schools they probably might not care all that much since they usually have their pick. But it is my understanding that certain schools do care about yield. I think those schools might consider that by filing an RD in January your early apps didn’t work out. By filing a school’s RD app before December 1st, you have no knowledge of what your outcomes are, all they know is they weren’t among your early school choices. Some schools will care less and not notice, others might prefer to give a spot to someone they think will take it.</p>
<p>I can’t give you nationwide statistics in answer to your question but I can tell you that from my child’s high school the vast majority of students do file some sort of early application to one of their top choice schools. Obviously those schools run the gamut of selectivity. Seems statistics bear out that is their greatest chance of admission, whether elite schools or otherwise.</p>
<p>“I am thinking adcoms view apps online in which case they see everything. But certainly they see whether you have checked the ED/EA box or the RD box.”</p>
<p>Except that every “behind the adcom door” story out there has <em>always</em> mentioned paper copies that the readers take home and read by the fire, physically take notes on the front of the folder, and so forth. </p>
<p>And yes, of course they see whether you “checked an ED/EA box or an RD box.” But they aren’t looking at them AT THE SAME TIME. They’re not looking at Janie who checked the ED box and then Susie who checked the RD box and thinking - gosh, Susie doesn’t want us as badly so the heck with her. They aren’t CONSIDERING Susie in that moment. Her file is being set aside in anticipation for when the RD task begins - which isn’t happening then. Her level of perceived desire isn’t being compared to Janie’s.</p>
<p>It might be a message that the kid is exceptionally organized but is not in a position (financial or otherwise) to apply early. Parents are in the middle of an IRS audit and can’t complete the financial aid forms for an early app. Kid is torn between two equally wonderful “first choices”.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is going to put this kid’s application in the “nah, she’ll hurt our yield” pile? Not a chance.</p>
<p>My understanding is that besides spreading out the workload for adcoms, the main purpose of early action programs is the opportunity for an applicant to signal to the school that it is among their first choices. so yeah the schools do care. Submitting an RD app by November 1st is a message to the school they are not your first choice. Some could care less, others concerned with yield might. Seems safer to me to prepare the RD app and submit after December 15th.</p>
<p>Interestingly, BC said that applying early actually hurts your chances (for 50th %ile candidates). I felt that they were being up front about that. They said that, in the interest of equity, they capped the number of acceptances and that most were filled by athletes, etc. It actually discouraged the EA approach. Northwestern was exactly opposite.</p>
<p>What I see (and I’ve taught at two top ten national high schools and two regular high schools) is that the majority of kids are not together enough or confident enough in their choice to apply early, and that colleges appreciate competed applications, regardless of the date competed. Saves them work. :-)</p>
<p>“What I see (and I’ve taught at two top ten national high schools and two regular high schools) is that the majority of kids are not together enough or confident enough in their choice to apply early…….”</p>
<p>But isn’t that the beauty of EA versus ED? You get an earlier decision which can potentially reduce the number of RD apps, but no commitment is required until May. Alternatively if one of the EA schools is in fact your first choice, if you are accepted you are done.</p>
<p>My kids all played a time consuming, travel intensive winter sport. We knew this would limit the time available to complete quality applications. The rule in our house was that all apps, EA and RD, had to be submitted before the first practice in mid November. They all did very well with acceptances and I do not feel early submissions hurt them in the least. We also heard at a BC info session (several years go so YMMV) that you should only apply EA if you are an exceptionally strong candidate.</p>
<p>It’s a double-edged sword, I guess. For some students, getting an early answer can be a positive. The whole process is intimidating and stressful, and the variety of options can be overwhelming for others.</p>
<p>Filling out apps is a rite of passage, and the process deserves more time and consideration than many families give it, IMHO. Too many kids apply EA or rolling, get an answer, make a snap decision and then find out too late that the money isn’t there.</p>
<p>For us, the value of or kids’ education is three times the value of our home. It is a joint decision with out kids, but they have a job to do, and that job is to make as wise a decision as possible for themselves and the family, and follow through on the job of applying well. Yes, it is calculated, and I no doubt obsess too much, but I don’t really think that my kids will make overwhelmingly poor decisions on fit within the parameters, and I trust that schools choose students for relatively reasonable reasons. The differences between Rice and Northwestern, for example, will not be so great as to make one perfect and the other horrible. Both would be fine, just like either BC out Dartmouth would be fine. One will just cost me more, most probably, and with three kids, that matters. </p>
<p>I do take your point, but I agree that schools that are that convened with when you apply are probably too concerned with things other than education. :-)</p>
<p>When a kid applies EA or rolling, and gets an admissions decision, they DO NOT have to make a matriculation decision until May 1…and their financial aid packages will have been received. (If they applied on time).</p>
<p>In my opinion, kids and families don’t take time to vet their choices before sending applications. My DD really only wanted to apply to 3 schools. We insisted that she apply to one parent choice closer to home. And she then decided to apply to a reach (we should have just let her apply to her three choices in retrospect…they were her top choices from the get go). DD had visited 14 colleges on trips just for her. Plus she was a tag along on her brother’s trips. In addition, she did a summer program on a college campus.</p>
<p>By the time application time came, this kid had really researched schools, had visited ones of interest, and had a goos sense of what she wanted. She did not use the common application (this was 2006 and that was a choice). There was no option for her to just add schools. She knew want she wanted.</p>
<p>I do realize that some students need to cast a wider net…because of finances or other circumstances. But some of my DD’s friends applied to a ton of schools simply because they could. They really didn’t give the selection process much thought prior to sending applications.</p>
<p>^^ That is precisely what I meant - that kids apply to EA and rolling schools without giving it adequate thought, get a quick yes, and then don’t think much about it until the bill comes due. I see that far too frequently.</p>
<p>CC parents (and their kids’ friends) are far more involved in the process. I happen to live in a fairly affluent area, and the kids I teach largely fall into that sad middle category - smart, but not brilliant; asset rich but cash poor. They apply to schools that will accept them at full pay (they don’t realize the cost, and neither do their parents until they get the EFC from FAFSA in March, by which time it’s too late to apply more broadly), and then scramble last minute, often after slacking off because “they’ve gotten into college”.</p>
<p>A bit of a digression, but I guess that what I was agreeing with was having all ducks in a row early, and keeping a focus on the big picture.</p>
<p>“Submitting an RD app by November 1st is a message to the school they are not your first choice.”</p>
<p>If you assume that everyone has or should have an ED choice. I don’t think you’re listening. The majority of kids in this country aren’t full pay, and thus ED is a poor choice for them in the first place, and they aren’t ED-ing anywhere. Schools know this and they aren’t penalizing RD applicants for not applying ED. </p>
<p>You’re not thinking through workloads, Harvestmoon. When the RD application shows up, whether it’s November 1 or December 15, it is PUT OFF TO THE SIDE until such time as the ED process has been “swallowed” through the system. You seem to be under some impression that they’re considering the RD that arrives the moment that it arrives and thus penalizing the kid because he / she didn’t show enough love. </p>
<p>Having just graduated this May, I want to give my two cents on early admissions. </p>
<p>In all honesty with the utter crapshoot college admissions has become, I think applying ED is a great strategy. I was accepted to ED at Penn and think applying was one of the best decisions I made in high school. Though looking back I probably would have loved going to a place like Harvard or Stanford, coming from a competitive high school made me very insecure about my chances at such places. </p>
<p>My friend said the same thing. She applied ED to Penn for the same reasons as me, she really liked it and wanted to maximize her chances of getting into a top choice. This worked wonderfully for us. We have both excelled at Penn and got a fantastic education that is not any different than the one we would have gotten at HYPSM. The only thing we sacrificed was a small bit of prestige which honestly doesn’t matter in the long run. </p>
<p>College admissions today are based on so many random factors that have nothing to do with how you will perform and give back to your school. This is incredibly clear once you get there. In my opinion, it is better to be conservative and play the game and take risks later on.</p>
<p>I did this in physics grad school admissions. In grad school applications, there are no ways to increase your odds with early programs. When I applied to grad school I just hit 9/10 top schools and had a safety that apparently I didn’t need (several people told me this). </p>
<p>I marked my interest in theoretical physics which is significantly more competitive than experiment. In other words, I took the full risk. Oddly enough, I chose between Harvard and Stanford, two places I didn’t even bother applying for undergrad.</p>
Are you sure she loses the option to apply EA to BC and Georgetown if she applies ED to Dartmouth? The ivy ED policies I am familiar with restrict binding ED applications to other colleges, but they do not restrict non-binding EA applications to other colleges</p>
<p>The benefit of applying early can vary quite a bit between schools. For example, among the selective SCEA colleges, Harvard had the highest SCEA acceptance rate this year and the lowest RD acceptance rate Harvard’s SCEA acceptance rate was approximately double Stanford’s, even though the two schools had a roughly similar overall acceptance rate between 5 and 6%. As one would expect with these results, Harvard admitted a much larger portion of their class via SCEA than Stanford, so I’d expect a much greater benefit to applying SCEA at Harvard. Dartmouth’s stats suggest a benefit to applying early, but not as great as at some of the other ivies. Downsides to applying early include not being able list positive things that may happen during senior year, financial aid issues, and not being able to easily change mind about where you’d like to attend in a binding ED.</p>
<p>Back when I applied to colleges, I was accepted EA to a selective college that was one of my top choices, but not my first choice. So in RD round, I only needed to apply to the few colleges I’d choose above the EA acceptance, and I didn’t need to apply to safeties or other colleges that were not among my top choices. It made the process quite a bit more simple. </p>
<p>“Are you sure she loses the option to apply EA to BC and Georgetown if she applies ED to Dartmouth?”</p>
<p>I can’t speak for BC, but that is absolutely the case with Georgetown. You cannot apply EA to Georgetown and apply ED to another school. They are very clear about that. My son was caught in that - if he’d been able to, he would have applied ED to Northwestern and EA to Georgetown, but wound up with ED to Northwestern since he had to make a choice. </p>
Yes, it is calculated, and I no doubt obsess too much, but I don’t really think that my kids will make overwhelmingly poor decisions on fit within the parameters, and I trust that schools choose students for relatively reasonable reasons. The differences between Rice and Northwestern, for example, will not be so great as to make one perfect and the other horrible. Both would be fine, just like either BC out Dartmouth would be fine. One will just cost me more, most probably, and with three kids, that matters.