@Emmycat - From reading your daughter’s interests she might want to look into a public health major. At my daughter’s school, her public health major included public health courses but also science, psychology, nutrition, anthropology and other courses. The field of community public health includes educating the public and could be less research based. Public health has many more aspects than global health or infectious diseases. There’s also social and behavioral health which might be an area of interest to her. I would think a large university would have a public health major and perhaps some or many of the classes she has already taken would count toward the public health major.
paging @juillet, partly for the daughter & a lot for the OP: as many other posters have noted, many wonderful life paths are not obvious at the outset, but rather evolve. That is particularly true for the younger Millenials and GenZers, for whom absolutely nothing is certain!
One of my kids was an early employee at a successful startup (which has since gone public) which is a leader in a field which did not exist while said kid was in college, using technologies which did not exist when this kid was in college AND kid has never taken a CS or programming class.
Major was Poli Sci…
You can work in tech with a degree in anthropology, you can work in economic development with a degree in psychology, you can work in an investment bank with a degree in sociology.
Your D sounds great. Most people don’t have a clue at her age, they just hide it well by majoring in Accounting or something else which sounds practical, and then figure it out in their 20’s along with the Comp Lit majors and the Renaissance Studies majors!
If it were me- I’d encourage my kid to read, read, read. New Yorker, The Atlantic, Vanity Fair, New Republic, Wall Street Journal-- anything which publishes “general interest” articles with deep reporting and high quality writing. I read a story in the New Yorker about the genetics of the apple industry which made me regret not majoring in agronomy (I don’t know anything about the agriculture industry- but this article was GRIPPING.) Then a month later I read a story about the ships that now use the polar routes due to global warming (the ice caps have melted) and regretted not majoring in oceanography!
I would also encourage her to talk to as many alums of her college as possible to hear about what they do for a living. It’s easy to fall in to the trap of assuming that everyone is either a doctor, nurse, or dentist (nothing wrong with these professions of course). But does she know anyone who does market research for pharmaceutical companies? Has she every spoken with someone who recruits patients for clinical trials? Does she know what hospital patient advocates do, or what the person who manages training and learning for clinicians at a VA facility does all day? All of these folks are in health care-- but with different skills and competencies.
I could do this exercise for any industry of course. But the point is that not everyone at Starbucks is a barista, and not everyone at Apple is a coder, and not everyone at Disney performs in costume. So having multiple interests is a gift!!!
@Emmycat Here goes. I am a person who followed a circuitous path through four successful careers and wouldn’t change a thing. First, I think your daughter like many strong students might be in the place of loving many things. For some that would seem easy. But it’s actually not.
When a student does everything equally well, they often can’t clearly see what paths are available. There are many subtle and not so subtle clues that people get when they are good at something. If they are good in one subject, they’ll likely go in that direction. But what happens when they are good in every subject?
I would have your daughter talk to a variety of people in different fields. Rather than specific job titles she should plug into things she loves.
Let me give you an example, I loved languages, econ, math, and international relations. I took classes in all these areas and ended up first working in international banking, followed by technology, followed by management consulting followed by my current occupation ( which I won’t mention as there are a handful of us in the US). But it’s in a creative field.
She needs to build skills not just look at careers. I strongly believe the best jobs are at the intersection of multiple skills. And they pay better too. If you have two or three strong interests you can then find a job/jobs which fit your interest and work will not be boring. Money is important!! I would never take a job that doesn’t pay well or suggest that for anyone else. Mainly because there is usually a job with similar skills that does pay well.
Also, I would encourage her to think big. A job working in a public/international health field by getting a Masters in Public Health or MPA might be more enjoyable than a job where the field is more limited. Think of interest and then group the interests together. Also, if you break it down into interests she can get a degree with a major and a minor or double up. That way she’ll have a basket of skills rather than preparation for a specific job. I like the degrees which never go out of style: math, econ, business, art history, psychology or whatever. IMHO, the world is moving so fast that students need skills that are flexible. A degree in a field that is pretty rigid or too novel can hurt down the road. I have a nephew that told me his major the last time I saw him. I have no idea what it means. At all. And it sounded very 2020. Wonder what that will sound like in 2060?
I heartily endorse blossom’s comment about reading broadly, which not only helps make the reader a more interesting person but can pay off professionally in unexpected ways via cross-pollination. (Reminds me of Steve Jobs’ famous anecdote about how taking a calligraphy class for fun later proved valuable in designing the MacIntosh.)
I remember that article – it was indeed great! After reading it I tried to summarize it for my family and they became bored within about 30 seconds, which reminded me both that I’m a less-than-riveting speaker and that a talented author can make a seemingly mundane topic fascinating to people who wouldn’t normally care about the subject.
Tiger- you made me laugh. I have told all my colleagues, family members, friends about apples and they all look at me like I’m nuts.
Kind of like reading Atul Gawande on ANYTHING- bladder cancer, the ethics of DNR for a terminally ill parent, why people don’t like to wash their hands but claim that they do… he is just a fantastic writer who can make the most boring subject fascinating!!!
Just a suggestion, OP. The experiences reflected here are necessarily from posters with historical work records. As investors say, past performance is not necessarily predictive of future results, particularly in a pandemic with 40 million unemployed.
I do not think anyone here has personal experience with the Great Depression, though that seems to be where we are headed. So your student’s experience may be quite different, and her anxiety may reflect her generation’s realization of that.
I understand why many students today have difficulty choosing a major/career path. There are so many options!
Do you have a sense of what would be best for her? Sometimes parents know or have a very good direction. Given that she is a junior you are talking about 4 quick semesters. In no time, she will be done with college but the fact is, you have to get her there and it sounds like finishing in 4 years is important to you. This will sound strange and out of vogue but maybe you need to narrow her choices down for her and strongly advise her. Some people just can’t make decisions no matter how much clarification and processing they go through. Is your daughter one of these people right now? I’ve seen so many people who just need to jump into something. Anything. Chances are as parents, you know what would be a good fit for her and a good choice given the impending job market ahead.
Given that your daughter is so bright, my guess is she will graduate, perhaps work and then go to graduate school at some point. For now, just finish that undergraduate degree. She might be looking for very strong urging from you on a major choice because she just can’t choose. Maybe when she will have a more clear picture for the next leg of her education when/if she decides to attend graduate school.
My previous post advised unhooking career and major. But I just want to add that the main thing is, finish. Honestly, tell her to make a list, close her eyes and point. In the end her major really may not matter. What does matter is finishing.
Her career path can be determined later, through either work or grad school. And many many people change over time. Undergrad is just not the be all and end all for determining your lifelong path.
Has she considered UX design?
@roycroftmom makes an excellent point, kids are naturally nervous given what is happening today. There are many more college graduates than ever before so the degree isn’t a guarantee of a decent job. And many kids don’t have a work history through high school and college.
That said, I think when people are overwhelmed the best thing to do is break things down into little steps.
I went to college thinking I’d major in psych. Switched to journalism. Loved my theology classes so much that I ended up with a minor in that. I attended a Jesuit college that let us explore.
My career has taken me all over the field of communications. I’ve worked as a journalist, PR rep, corporate marketing copywriter, internal communications specialist. @gouf78, I ended up getting a master’s in UX design a few years ago and now work as a UX content strategist.
The point here is that there are certain skill sets that apply across different “jobs.” I enjoy, and have natural talent for, communicating. I also enjoy human behavior. And writing. So the things I enjoyed while exploring in undergrad make sense looking back.
Perhaps your daughter can consider what her natural inclinations are along with her interests. I decided to respond here because she sounds a bit like me. Over the years, I’ve almost gone to grad school to become a librarian. And a high school English teacher. But all of those things map back to communicating, writing, reading, human behavior. Things I enjoy.
She can major in psych. Or communications. Something “bigger” that stimulates. And then take an internship in a “job” that sounds interesting. Leaning into her broader skill set and interest is what will carry across as she tries different things throughout her undergrad AND professional life.
I like what was written above in post #12 about how a focus on career in college might give you more certainty in the short term, but less flexibility in the long term. Not all students fit into that short term mold. There are different paths to success (as defined by the individual) and many don’t include a straight arrow.
I know a health care worker who was an anthropology major, joined the Peace Corp, spent two more years working as a tutor, worked for an organization helping the homeless, and eventually returned to school 5 years after graduation. These stories are not uncommon.
If your daughter has a chance to speak with her professors, she will likely find a few with similar paths. One of my D’s profs worked in a coffee shop following graduation, did some tutoring, went on to get an MPH and eventually a PhD.
Your daughter might feel less stressed if she talks to some people whose career paths were not a straight line.
Roycroft, I think your point is well taken. None of us know.
BUT- I’ve been in corporate America since the late 70’s. I graduated from college into a recession, and lived through 1987, early 90’'s tech/aerospace bust, several boom/bust years for the petroleum industry, early 2001 recession and then 9/11, and of course, 2008. Professions wax and wane.
I do not have a crystal ball, but as someone who hires for a living, I have observed that at least for the recessions noted above:
1- Generalists seem to fare better than specialists. You can major in petroleum engineering when every company on the planet is hiring and escalating salaries… lucky you. And then you can graduate into one of the frequent dips where everyone is laying off experienced engineers. You can major in mechanical engineering and get hired at an oil and gas company, but it is MUCH harder to major in petroleum engineering and get hired at a consumer products company, or a medical device company, etc. even though so many of the skills are fungible. Ditto for aero/astro. I was already in recruiting in the early 90’s when highly skilled engineers were being laid off from the airlines, manufacturers, aftermarket companies-- and not by the dozens, by the thousands. My company had PhD’s in Aero applying for entry level data analyst jobs (which required algebra, in a test we gave applicants).
2- Newish degrees (this point is related to the above) don’t fare well during a recession. Don’t major in real estate management/development if your college offers a solid finance degree-- most of the courses overlap, and every hiring manager in the US knows what a person with a finance degree can do, and significantly fewer know what a real estate management person does especially if the job is not in real estate development. I knew hundreds of young grads in the early 200’s with degrees in e-commerce (too bad e-commerce blew up as a discipline) and it was really, really sad. Better to major in CS-- again, everyone knows what that is, and take a couple of psychology and design courses.
3- Very narrow degrees are not your friend unless it’s for a licensed profession. Yes, you have to pass the boards to become a nurse, so majoring in nursing is the way to go because that’s how you prepare for to be licensed. But majoring in “pre-law”? No, you still need law school in 49 out of 50 states. Travel and tourism? No, because when the tourism industry dries up (like now) what’s plan B? Recreation Management?Athletic Training? Many of these degree-holders end up in jobs which do not require a college degree at all (most of the young people working at my gym have these degrees, alongside high school graduates and kids with a GED. And they are all making minimum wage, part-time with no benefits except for a “free” gym membership.)
4- Make sure you at least like/love what you are studying because it’s the only BA you are going to get. STEM is an obsession right now- but who remembers when PhD’s in Math were driving taxis? And who knows young people with bio majors who work cleaning cages at a lab (just over minimum wage and no free gym) because nobody told them that a BA or BS in bio does not qualify you to do high end genetic research on Covid ? If you’ve gritted your teeth for four years to get that STEM degree (or finance degree, or whatever) and the intended career doesn’t work out, are you going to feel doubly cheated (hated college AND hate the only job you can get?)
No crystal ball. But grinding through a degree in the hopes that it makes you “marketable” if you don’t love where you might end up— think twice.
super post, @blossom
@Emmycat, she does seem like a great candidate for Peace Corps (from one who has done it). I imagine that Peace Corps is suspended around the globe right now (hopefully a temporary situation). Lots of information and inspiration on the Peace Corps website if your D just wants to learn more at this point.
She would need to complete a degree first (only those with farm backgrounds or extensive life experience would be considered without a degree) and it’s a many-months long competitive vetting process to get in, so not something to do on a lark while deciding on a major, and it’s usually a 24 to 27 month commitment…not something you just sign up for (only saying that because so many people seem to have that perception).
It IS a great thing to do between an undergraduate degree and grad school, and enormous numbers of returned volunteers go back for a MPH or PhD in public health afterwards. Lots of volunteers study for GMATS or MCATS while overseas and take the tests at embassies or American schools abroad so they are ready to apply from the field or right after returning. Certain universities (Tulane, UNC, American and George Washington University come to mind) tend to be chock full of returned volunteers in public health, public policy, international development and social work programs. Having completed Peace Corps service is seen as a very strong part of an application to such programs…if anything, some students in these programs (especially in global health) may feel almost a minority if they have NOT done it or something comparable.
Good luck to your daughter…she sounds wonderful!
Have her set up a LinkedIn profile and explore profiles of other people. It’s illuminating to see the career paths of people who’ve been working 10, 20, 30 years. She’ll learn that very few people travel a straight path. It also tells you the types of things that are out there.
Has she taken any philosophy courses? Philosophy would be a good major for someone like your daughter, and she can go in any direction with it.
Life is not a race. She does not have to know now what she is going to do. And, kudos to you for making sure she knows that. Taking a job it not a bad idea.
As @compmom points out, there are lots of jobs that would enable her to work in the areas she has targeted.
More importantly, @Emmycat, it may reduce your D’s stress to know that for many people, they don’t make one career choice but make many. I know one doctor who practiced cardiology before realizing that most of the problems his patients were suffering were caused by diet and exercise. While working as a cardiologist, he got a degree in public health and began studying the effects of nutrition on health.
The world is changing very rapidly for good and for bad. I used to tell my kids that the two careers I have had for the primary bulk of my adult life didn’t exist when I was in college. It was the capacity for flexible thinking, the ability to learn new things, and a core set of skills that has enabled me to navigate from being a business school professor to finance (not my field at business school) to a consulting firm in the field of my research and a co-founder of various business (quantitative hedge fund, tech startup in the HR world, tertiary wastewater treatment, etc.).
I’ve been fortunate to live in a world with people doing really interesting an important things and whose careers are more a calling than a job (people sometimes assume that this means they are choosing not to be paid, many of these folks make lots of $$ and do things they feel are deeply important). My observation of my own and others’ paths is that it is important to do a great job at each step of the way as that will open up opportunities for the next step, which may only be tangentially related to what one is currently doing. Your D’s assignment, if she chooses to accept it, is to refine her sense of what feels authentic/fulfilling to her while doing a great job at whatever she is currently doing. Then, when opportunities arise, she can choose those that feel like the right steps along her path to a fulfilling career. The trick is to be open to and prepared for serendipity.
Encourage her to read ‘The 100 Year Life’ by Scott and Gratton.
The most important skills we need now are: creativity, adaptability, innovation and resiliency. The ability to make the all important pivot. The ability to bring different sets of skills together in ways that haven’t before. The ability to ride out the storm. You can learn these skills whether you study accountancy or history or nursing or comp sci or women’s studies.
For immediate use, I would ensure she has a degree of quantitative literacy and aptitude, as well as being able to write well, think critically and communicate verbally. Plus experience of getting her hands dirty in a job/ internship. Again, you can learn these skills through a combination of different classes and majors.
There is a poster @Lindagaf whose daughter majored in Psychology but who has built an extensive background in stats. She is going to work for a manufacturing company. Will she be there forever? Is it glamorous? Unlikely! But it is a great way to start and learn (and ride out the coming storm) and maybe then pivot or move to something else.
@Emmycat - I have similar interests as your daughter’s, and I ended up in UX research. I got my bachelor’s degree in psychology and took a wide range of classes that matched up with my interests - across history, health, biology, philosophy and other areas - and then I get an MA and PhD in public health. I did a postdoctoral fellowship for a year and then took my skills into UX research at a large technology company, where I do (and now, manage) research on video games.
I never imagined doing what I do when I first majored in psychology; I didn’t even know the field existed. And, as I say often here, most of the big companies that hire UX researchers now, and pay them very well, didn’t exist (Twitter, Snapchat) or were in their infancy (Facebook, Amazon, Google) when I was in college.
A lot of other people have given great advice (I especially love blossom’s post, #33). I graduated into the Great Recession, so I totally know what it’s like to be in a period of increasing uncertainty about jobs and employment when one is only at the beginning of one’s career. But that’s the nature of the economy - it ALWAYS goes up and down; the difference is how much. Also, even when the rest of the economy is thriving, there are some fields that will not do well because of the speed of technological change or sociopolitical factors (for example, right now tech is hot and everyone’s encouraging their kids to major in computer science or engineering - but tech is in the middle of a gigantic reckoning right now coming from a variety of different angles).
In fact, it’s precisely because we can’t predict the future that I advocate for students studying what they want and following their interests. Intelligent, flexible college graduates can usually develop transferable skills that they can take into new careers and job roles. Planning everything out at the outset may actually be detrimental, as it can decrease a new graduate’s flexibility of mind to consider options they may have never thought of before.
I think your daughter knows what she wants to study but is afraid because it’s a major that’s often viewed as “worthless” and one that doesn’t invite success. My (somewhat snarky) take? That’s what all the big tech companies thought, too, until they realized they’d built social platforms without accounting for people’s social behavior.
I also generally agree with blossom’s take that generalists seem to fare better than specialists in the long run. I think it’s because generalists don’t have a specialized knowledge and are thus forced to think about how their skills and knowledge areas connect with their jobs - and others’ - in deep ways. I didn’t complete my minor in history (too busy taking a bunch of other classes I was interested in!) but I’m consistently surprised at how much my knowledge of and interest history plays a role in my job in tech. But that’s because history isn’t just about memorizing facts; it’s about analyzing how historical events and human behavior shape our world. Any leader can benefit for that.