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<p>Irish and Italian “forefathers” were responsible for creating a discriminatory society?</p>
<p>Lockn:</p>
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<p>Who are still not taking higher elevel qunat courses offered by MIT. AA are still enrolling on a higher percenetage basis the lower rated courses to graduate. I was a grad student there, I did not see many taking quant basis courses.</p>
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<p>Q. How many AA students are enrolled in math/Physics program?
A. On the whole AA% basis very low - most go to non qunat basis program</p>
<p>Firstly, what does physics and Math enrollment have to do with anything?</p>
<p>Secondly, you can’t get statistics based on “AA” students because there is no formal designation of such students. There are students for whom race was an admissions criteria, but that’s the school’s entire URM enrollment. </p>
<p>Lastly, if you want to know how many of them are enrolled in math/Physics specifically, I’ll say it outright: Not many. But how many white and Asian students at elite colleges are enrolled in a math/Physics program? At my school, the most popular majors here are History, English, Economics, Political Science and Biology. The majority of whites and Asians are not majoring in math or Physics or even Engineering. They’re majoring in subjects that either don’t require math or doesn’t require much more than Linear Algebra. So while “AA students” enroll in physics and mathematics at a low rate, so does the entire student body. </p>
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<p>I don’t know what math 19 is because I don’t attend Harvard.</p>
<p>But I’ll say that at my school the average “AA” economics major takes multi-variable calculus with Linear Algebra just like the average economics major. Most don’t bother taking higher level math courses because they’re either more interested in policy or they don’t plan on attending a graduate program in their major. Coincidentally, the average economics major doesn’t take higher level math courses for those very same reasons.</p>
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<p>I don’t see how you’re doing that as:</p>
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<li>The average “AA” admit is worse off the average student.</li>
<li>Poorer students generally don’t go into quantitative majors.</li>
<li>The average “AA” probably has different goals than his “much poorer” non AA counterpart.</li>
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<p>Is that a problem? Seeing as AA mostly affects competitive college admissions, I fail to see how AA wouldn’t benefit rich minorities more than poor ones.</p>
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<p>These no-quant AA students must really know how to work the system.</p>
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<p>The purposes of AA was supposed to help poor inner city kids attend college so in turn it motivates other students to work hard. Obama is a perfect exmple of it that the poor kid got help and rose through ranks. </p>
<p>But with today prcatices afflunet rich AA students have no incentive to work harder as they will get in without working through their potential.</p>
<p>I have no kids in MIT so can not comments</p>
<p>Let us see math/science requirements in Harvard:</p>
<p>But in harvard, one can take math 19 and gradaute. Why take math 23 or math 25?</p>
<p>Science - Why take harder level science when one can take fluff course.</p>
<p>“But with today prcatices afflunet rich AA students have no incentive to work harder as they will get in without working through their potential.”</p>
<p>This is the statement I can never resist responding to. I’m sure there are “affluent rich AA students” out there, who know about AA and elite college admissions, but they must mostly be nested in some pretty limited places. Some of those places are referenced here, though no one will be specific. I’m assuming big cities with significant populations of “affluent” Black kids like Atlanta and D.C. But most of the African American kids who post here, are the only high achieving African American kids they know. My kid was like that, and never heard of, or considered her race in admissions until getting a National Achievement commendation and the mail that followed in her junior year. This was all a big surprise to her ( and her school… “they” think she’s the “smartest kid in the world”… they have not been to this website), and did not affect her behavior in any way. Even more ironically, it was a big surprise to me, and I’m an “affluent African American” Seemed she saw the same kids at every “cultural diversity” event at recruiting schools. the same handful of kids. I do not think I would be on college confidential, and I don’t think my D would be at an “elite” school, if not for my husband. He is first generation college, and first generation American and seems to “get” this elite education thing. I think it must be as much cultural as it is economic. There is NO WAY my family of origin would have thought going to In “elite” school was very important. And I believe this is even more true for 99.9999% percent of the African American population.</p>
<p>I’m Asian. I agree with you.</p>
<p>What ****es me off the most is how Asians get screwed by Affirmative Action. We’re freaking minorities as well. It almost seems like this country rewards laziness and punishes the hard-working. (No offense to anyone.)</p>
<p>We should just drop all of this fear about being racist and actually stop being racist by getting rid of all Affirmative Action.</p>
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<p>This is the attitude of most students at Harvard regardless of race.</p>
<p>Nearl:</p>
<p>Meause the enrollment on the beasis of race Kids taking easy programs verusus the overall number of kids of the same race who are enrolled in the college</p>
<p>AA numbers get scewed on a higher percenrage basis more towards the easier course than any other race. Statistical basis the number should be not scewing in once race over the other race. They should be following similar trends, but trends is very disticnctive.</p>
<p>I am just refuting that percentage of kids graduating is similar to other race, I agree with that but if you go deeper and analyze the course load - there you will find a chnage. Statistics can be manipulated but it never tells you lies if one sees the data and interpret it.</p>
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<p>that’s why you don’t vote for the dems</p>
<p>Actually, I have seen many whites who bend over backwards to blacks and are so nice. They act as if that person is their long lost cousin, but when they see Asians the real claws come out.</p>
<p>People are actually saying that AA admits take the hardest classes at the school (and at the same rates as non-AA admits)? That seems like a laughable exercise for anyone who has actually been through a quant program or worked in a quant field.</p>
<p>In my engineering program our URM diversity percentages were far far below that of the university itself. Hell, one of my buddies at Cal said during his EECS cohort there was only a single black guy in his major!</p>
<p>I mean, it’s fairly testable. Lets say the three hardest majors at MIT are Math/Physics/EECS. What’s the % of URMs in those majors versus the % percentage of URMs in the university?</p>
<p>^^assuming one can eliminate other factors that may impact a decision as to which major to choose.</p>
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Nobody’s claiming that. But collegeinusa seems to be pushing the idea that AA students aren’t capable of taking quant classes or avoid them out of laziness. This obviously isn’t true when MIT with its science core is the top choice of black students (don’t have data for Hispanics). I get the impression that AA students are more likely to take whatever course they perceive will make them the most money… law or business.</p>
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I’ve noticed this as well in my college; it would make sense that 1st generation students or people who are first in their families to go to college would want to pick a practical and lucrative major. Someone said earlier AA students don’t gravitate to subjects like econ or business, but that’s not true. Econ isn’t a quanititative subject at most colleges either (at MIT it probably is); it requires basic calc and stats - science majors like chemistry, biochemistry or physics are a lot more quantitative than econ or finance generally.
Right, and I think it would be interesting to compare the percentage of African immigrants to African-Americans out of black students in top colleges. African immigrants are generally a high achieving minority group, aren’t they? I’m a science major in college and have noticed a lot of the black students in my classes are 1st gen African students as opposed to African-Americans. Cultural reasons, I guess?</p>
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I’m not sure this is a rebuttal to anything said.</p>
<p>The question is the relative rates between different groups.</p>
<p>^^exactly and this is one of the potential factors that would need to be controlled in Mr. Payne’s “test”</p>
<p>Ah, once again misguided comments on a subject that could use some sober objectivity.</p>
<p>Collegeintheusa, if you’re hearing offensive remarks in your personal circle, you need to object and change your associations. If you’re hearing it from public representatives [store clerks, teachers etc.] you need to inform the management of those particular organizations and insist that such employees be reprimanded.</p>
<p>You also could attempt to impart some education to such offensive persons. Remind them that WWII is over, Asians are not the enemy of the west and that Japanese-American internment camps were a tragic idea.</p>
<p>Remind them that China is the west’s biggest trading partner in more ways that one and that a good percentage of the goods in their homes were manufactured in Asia.</p>
<p>Remind them that immigrants have come to this country for opportunity.</p>
<p>Don’t let their bias infect you with resentment for other American ethnic groups.</p>
<p>This thread will just be another excuse for the usual Asian racists to spew their nonsense.</p>