Affirmative Action?

Transfer Students
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<p>When I said “anyone” regarding those statistics, i meant anybody from the forum…I did not intent to start a “debate” with you.</p>

<p>You seem to get personal over this so I won’t discuss any further with you.</p>

<p>I agree with what ilovecalifornia said. AA is in fact a racist program. It explicitly discriminates certain groups of people. It’s, sadly, quite discriminating.</p>

<p>The main problem here is, at least as I see it, that the AA is a racist initiative.</p>

<p>This does not pertain to me but many people feel that a good number of such initiatives promoting diversity in this country are coercing people to interact with those who they do not want to be with. Why should the federal government force people to be with those who they don’t want to be with?</p>

<p>Such initiatives have become so powerful and intimidating people won’t talk straight about how they feel because they are worried of being called “racists” when in fact it all boils down to one’s own perference as to what he or she wants and doesn’t want.</p>

<p>I wonder:</p>

<p>If your daughter (future…) happens to favor a white man over other races, is she a racist? I don’t think so. She just has her own perference.</p>

<p>Should we force her to marry a black man? Why not? Let’s promote “diversity”. Yes, such person like her who holds racist views must interact with people of different ethnicities to challenge her steretypes and encourage her understanding. GREAT!</p>

<p>Another interesting incident.</p>

<p>Our federal government takes initiatives to promote diversity by having (forcing…eh hem!) minority groups to move into towns that are dominated by the white Americans. Is this legitimate? Why are we forced to change our view? Isn’t this an infringement upon one’s private life?</p>

<p>I am afraid, I don’t like Japanese cars. Am I a racist?!?!?! omg!
shhhh, be quiet, you might get a detention from the principal!!</p>

<p>In my HS (back in those days), if you happen to yell “JEW!”…you are likely to get a detention…why? because you are a racist!! (wait, is Jewish a race?)</p>

<p>If you happen to comment on one of your African-American friends in such way “your skin is so black” you will get a detention!</p>

<p>I remember such comments were prohibited…not becasue of school regulations…because we were taught this way along the way…we were taught to fear our differences, we were never taught to accept differences…</p>

<p>Blacks will never be whites…asians will never be blacks…but all these initiatives force ourselves to blindly refuse those differences and force ourselves to believe everyone is EQUAL! of course, we are equally talented humans, but we are not all identical!</p>

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<p>i think affirmative action based soley on skin color is a bad idea, it does send the wrong message…but at the same time i think in terms of college admissions, students need to be judged on how much they have acheived given their circumstances…if you take the credentials of someone that went to an overcrowded, understaffed, underfunded school that had to deal with absentee parents, divorce and poverty (and that would include students of all races) against someone who grew up in an upper class family and had the best access to tutors, APs and the like (again including all races)…the former person doesnt and never will stand a chance…and not because they are lazy or some how less intelligent but because the oppurtunities just werent there…you have to have some allowance for circumstances, you can’t go soley based on stats…basically i think affirmative action will work better and students who benefit from it wont be so looked down upon if its more holistic…taking into account not only race but also socio-economic status.</p>

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<p>Who actually benefits from AA? Do ethnic minorities who earn high GPA’S and come from impoverished house holds? Or do rich minorities who come from wealth with mediocre grades? The truth is, not a single human being benefits, except maybe the people who implement it and go home feeling all cuddly and warm inside.</p>

<p>Luckily the anti-AA movement has won recent victories, and the amount of students and educators alike who oppose it, is growing. If your ever interested in gaining some intellectual perspective on this issue read Thomas Sowell, or Nathan Glazer. I could easily regurgitate their words here on this page but I it be a task I wish not to embark on. My original argument against AA is that it is inherently a flawed idea in that in order to bestow certain benefits onto one person it must take them away from another. If the education machine was truly interested in solving the problem’s of minority students, they would not be so opposed to the voucher program for example, or more accountability such as pay for performance. It is the institutionalized protectionism by the teacher’s unions and the limousine liberal administrators which is truly to blame for the problems minority students face today.</p>

<p>And just to address one specific point where someone around the begining of this thread tried to make the argument that because a former slave may have been in contact with a now elderly person that somehow that elderly person’s life has been adversely affected. That is ludicrous. Using your logic how can you then downplay the significance of literature, music, art, even the history of the pre-antebellum south? Surely those mediums had been created even by some slaves themselves. You cannot, with intellectual honesty tie AA in with slavery.</p>

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<p>jslee1026: where do you believe racism comes from? people aren’t just born to hate another race. Its taught from parents, community, and the media. If you raise a child in an environment where she learns that blacks are “bad” and she is “better” than blacks. She will believe it. The whole AA initiative in schools try to reverse that whole form of thinking by putting people of different colors together so each and every person can understand eachother. Of course, AA, started out as a way for minorities to get ahead in life. But the implementation and reasoning for use, today, has differed. Schools such as the UC system don’t take note of race but rather hardships throughout life. But other schools such as Stanford, Harvard, and Yale have prospered because of AA implementation. The “meaning” is still the same but the “reason” has changed. People must look at the AA process as something that betters an entire community versus giving a leg up to a certain minority.</p>

<p>I’m not going to get into the whole legacy or wealth issues for admission to college because that’s another story and another topic. Yes it is unfair that a student would be accepted because there may be a high liklihood of future donations but I guess the question is, “how do you think schools build all those skyscrapers.”</p>

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<p>ijflexi…thanks.</p>

<p>i would like to do further reading on the subject…</p>

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<p>From AdOfficer on a different post:</p>

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<p>IsleBoy: Do you mind mentioning where this post is at ?, I’d like to read the entire thread if there is one, thanks</p>

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<p>yea, i was wondering which ad-officer said that lol</p>

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<p>Here’s the thread:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=262725[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=262725&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Towards the end. Also read the 10% article, and the Federal ruling on Kamehameha Schools.</p>

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<p>Affirmative action should be abolished PERIOD</p>

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<p>if affirmative action is abolished, then you would be discriminating against your mother, sister, aunt, and grandmother, because AA does not only include race, but white females also!</p>

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<p>Since this is posted in the Transfer Students section, I am assuming that most of you are already in college. I am just appalled at some of the hateful comments being made that I have to ask these questions. Do you have any African-American/Cuban/Nigerian/Mexican (minority) friends or acquaintances? Do you look at them or treat them with the sort of disdain/resentment expressed in this thread? Do you even have minority friends? If so, based on your experiences, would you say that they are worthy of attending your school? Do you think they contribute something to the campus? I just wanted to move away from how they got in, to how they perform when they actually get in. But then, again, you might not have minority friends. The reality on many campuses is that segregation is rampant. I am a black immigrant from Haiti, came here less than 6 years ago, learned the language, worked my butt off, graduated at the top of my class, didn’t get perfect SAT scores, but now attend a top-10 university. There are many with similar stories. Some of us didn’t get an “easier way in to college” as Newbyreborn suggests. I don’t approve of affirmative action, but in the moment it’s a necessary evil.</p>

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<p>My school’s student body is probably not a good representation of an overall American school system…</p>

<p>However, most of African-Americans and Latino-Americans have been recruited by coaches. Many barely pass their minimum GPAs required by their coaches.</p>

<p>Generally, at least in my school, they perform poorly.</p>

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<p>I couldn’t help noticing you mentioned my post! i don’t think my post is evil! I think you misunderstood me.
And what i was trying to say was that there Minorities shouldn’t get the easier way in, because there are talents out their like YOU as mentioned in my post:

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<p>I dont know much about affrimative action.</p>

<p>I’m from Canada we dont have anything like that here, and seems a little silly to have something like that.</p>

<p>Race, gender…etc, shouldnt matter whatsoever! If someone is a good student then they are a good student, no matter who they are.</p>

<p>Why give special treatment to anyone? Every race on this planet has suffered by the hand of another race. So how far back in time do people have to go to receive special treatment?</p>

<p>They say everyone is equal, then why not treat everyone as equals? If someone has a higher GPA, SAT or ACT then they should get in before someone who does not. </p>

<p>In Canadian universities, women outnumber the men (60 to 40), and there appears to be equal amounts of every race, and we dont have affirmative action. If you got the grades then you’ll get in, and thats it…nothing else.</p>

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<p>Are you serious? If we abolish AA, we are discriminating towards females? With AA, we are blatantly saying, you cannot get to such a position on your own, so here’s a boost.</p>

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<p>to jslee1026, what about those that are not athletes? how do they perform? If they are performing poorly, why is that? One reason would be the fact that on many campuses, there are not enough minority teachers or mentors…</p>

<p>to newbyreborn, I wasn’t trying to attack you; I just have a problem with the phrase “a minority.” Btw, I know a couple of minority students who had less than 2100 and sub 700 SAT IIs (although in the ballpark) who excel in top universities. Colleges say they look at the overall individual. Some people, due to certain circumstances, did not have the best grades but made up for it in some other way. A lot of it is about potential. Of course, there are others who are comfortable with mediocre grades. My point is that generalizations are flawed…</p>

<p>to Dam1727, that’s exactly the point. People are not treated as equals. You have to ask why do some people, mostly minorities, have lower GPAs, SAT and ACT scores. Try spending a day in an inner-city school, you’ll see why. Some people are not given the chance to fulfill their potential. The public education system in the US is deeply flawed. There are other barriers. Some parents don’t speak the English language, so they can’t help their children with homework or attend PTA meetings. Or children have to deal with prejudices in the classroom. Or they have to work and go to school. I am not trying to make excuses for how AA is currently implemented, but these are issues that need to be talked about simultaneously.</p>

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<p>I grew up in a really low income family (and I mean really low!).</p>

<p>In high school got fed up with living like that, and I took it upon myself to do anything it takes to get the good grades so I never have to live like that again!</p>

<p>I worked really hard, I got the grades, I got into university, and I graduated!
(I had no EC’s, I couldnt afford any!) I got in based solely on my grades. No one cared to hear my sob story, and frankly I didnt want them to…I wanted to be judged on my hard work and hard work alone.</p>

<p>All this affirmative action stuff is really about how badly someone wants to change their life for the better. If someone is in a bad situation growing up (no matter what race or gender) then its up to them on how badly they want to get away from that lifestyle.</p>

<p>If they truly and deeply want it, they will do anything no matter what it takes to make it happen!</p>

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<p>Nuelle: I see what you mean.</p>

<p>Then affirmative action is not the answer. The change must happen in the elementary and high school system. It appears the problem lies there then.</p>

<p>Because, say for example, a minority student gets accepted into a university under the affirmative action program (even though they might not have otherwise)…this student may not excel in their studies (due to the improper education of elementary and high school system that may have left the student unprepared for post-secondary learning)…this will crush the will of that person, and it will make them feel inferior…which isnt good at all.</p>

<p>So perhaps it time for people to take a stand for reforms in the elementary and secondary school system, so that everyone has a equal chance of success (granted that they do the work and put in the effort).</p>

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<p>“So how far back in time do people have to go to receive special treatment?”</p>

<p>That’s an interesting question. I often wonder…</p>

<p>Nuelle, many Asian-American immigrants and other immigrants face the same situation. And what upsets me the most about AA is that it discriminates Asian-American students when in fact they intend to help disadvantaged minority students (Asian-American immigrants supposedly included).</p>