Affordable Care Act and Ramifications Discussion

<p>Here’s a basic way to calculate a cost comparison between two plans:</p>

<p>Get the following info for each plan:</p>

<p>Annual Premium Cost (12x monthly premium)
Patient co-pay %
Annual patient maximum payout</p>

<p>On the high end of costs, your worst case scenario is the sum of the annual premium cost and the annual patient maximum payout. Because ACA caps the annual maximum, you are always almost going to come out better with the plan that offers the lowest premium in that scenario.</p>

<p>Obviously, if your have low end costs-- you never go to the doctor anyway – then the lower premium is also the better choice. It won’t cost you more to pay 40% of -0- as opposed to 10% of -0-. </p>

<p>In-between? </p>

<p>Well compare each plan this way:</p>

<p>Annual Premium Cost + (patient copay percentage x $ hypothetical medical bill) = total plan cost</p>

<p>So lets say that the Bronze plan costs $8000 annually and the Silver plan costs $9500 – and you want to see what would happen if you have $12,000 in medical expenses.</p>

<p>Patient pays 40% up to maximum with Bronze, only 30% with Silver. </p>

<p>Bronze = $8000 + (.4 x $12000) = $12,800 total patient pay out per year
Silver = $9500 + (.3 x $12000) = $13,100 total patient pay out per year</p>

<p>Depending on the rates you may find a sweet spot where the more expensive premiums result in savings over the less expensive premiums. I think that would make sense for people who know they have a predictable expense, such as the poster who wrote that her prescription meds for her chronic medical condition cost $2000 per month.</p>

<p>Things get complicated because the plans don’t simply pay out a consistent percentage – but typically set different copay rates for different types of services. So that poster with the chronic condition might instead be looking at the prescription drug benefit, and maybe the Bronze plan requires her to pay $50 for the prescription whereas on the Silver it’s only $35 – and maybe she needs to renew the prescription once a month --so that is looking at $600 compared to $420 – so instead of looking at the percentage (40% vs. 30%)- she’s going to have to look at the difference in out of pocket drug costs. </p>

<p>These preview example numbers don’t give that sort of detail.</p>

<p>The lady on the phone at Blue Shield assured me that they are going to have all of those detail available for use in October, probably accompanied by glossy brochures. </p>

<p>So we will know when we need to know. </p>

<p>The open-enrollment period for the exchanges in California will extend through March 31, 2014. It may vary somewhat in different states. I am saying that because if you already have insurance, there is no need to pre-enroll in October. You can do the math closer to the time when you might be considering a switch.</p>

<p>Obviously if you haven’t been able to get insurance because of some pre-existing condition, then you will be very happy to get on the exchange in time for the first day that the first policy is issued (January 1).</p>

<p>The other real big takeaway I have from studying all this is that if you buy insurance on the exchange and qualify for a subsidy, if you don’t apply for the subsidy you will get the benefit in the form of a tax refund. If you apply for and get a subsidy that you aren’t entitled to, because your income exceeds what you expected, then you’ll face an increased tax bill down the line. So for those of us who are uncertain as to what our income will be from year to year, the best option might be to pay full premium and get the refund in the years that we are entitled to it. </p>

<p>It seems crazy to me, but I really think that MAGI is calculated after the self-employment health insurance deduction – so if I earn $50K and pay $8000 in insurance premiums, I think my MAGI will then be $42K – meaning I’ll get a tax refund – but if I earn $50K and paid only $4000 in premiums, there will be a $46K MAGI, no subsidy. It is way more complicated than that because of income from other sources and other deductions that can reduce MAGI – and maybe I’ve got it wrong anyway – but as it stands I can see the subsidy calculations as being rather messy for self-employed in borderline income tax brackets. Given all the other financial juggling we self-employed need to do, what with managing business expenses and paying quarterlies, I think in general it’s better to plan with the assumption that we will owe the tax, and look at the “subsidy” as a potential tax credit rather than a way of reducing health insurance costs.</p>

<p>If there were also employer-paid payroll taxes offset with credits for employers who provide insurance for their workers, that would have eliminated any perceived benefit to employers to cut worker hours as well. Instead the choice for every employer woud be between the higher per-hour payroll tax they had to pay (let’s say, hypothetically, +$2 per employee hour) – or the option to get a waiver of that tax if they provided insurance for their employees.</p>

<p>Calmom, fantastic informative post.</p>

<p>

He may find that the platinum plan still costs more – the difference may be in who he writes the check to and when that happens. </p>

<p>I can certainly see some people still opting for the Platinum plan because of the peace of mind that gives them. There’s a simple behavioral economics question: would you rather go on a vacation where all expenses (transportation, meals, lodging, attractions, etc.) were paid in advance – or would you rather pay the same amount or slightly less with a pay-as-you go arrangement. Economically, the pay-as-you-go is better, but most people will opt for the pay-in-advance plan, because they realize they will have more fun on the cruise if they aren’t having to be constantly worried about paying for stuff and reminded how much money they are spending every day of the vacation. So that Platinum plan might just make some people happier. </p>

<p>I never see my health insurance premium bill because I put it all on my airline-miles visa card. I just pay my credit card monthly, and the more I put on the card, the more I rack up in points that can be applied to airfare on my favorite airline. So that’s just one example of another consideration that might come into play when someone is looking at premiums vs. overall out-of-pocket.</p>

<p>“There’s a simple behavioral economics question: would you rather go on a vacation where all expenses (transportation, meals, lodging, attractions, etc.) were paid in advance – or would you rather pay the same amount or slightly less with a pay-as-you go arrangement”</p>

<p>I think this may be the issue with my sister. Drug costs are very big. I dont know… I will learn more the next time I see my sister.</p>

<p>Ok… Page 5 from your link on plans in Cal. I see generic drugs covered. Where is the coverage for brand drugs?</p>

<p>Edit… Ok I see this link…
[Infostat</a> - Obamacare Expands Drug Coverage But Out of Pocket Expenses Go Up - Healthpocket](<a href=“Learn about Health Insurance in Our Resource Center”>Learn about Health Insurance in Our Resource Center)</p>

<p>The booklet I linked to is just a general overview – it doesn’t have specific details for each plan. I assume that those details will be fleshed out by the information each company provides. I know that on my current plan (the HSA with the $3500 deductible), I get no prescription drug benefit until I meet my deductible, - after that I think it is $20 for generic drugs, $35 for brand name drugs. </p>

<p>On the generic end of things, I figured out awhile ago that you it might be better to sign up for a prescription drug discount card with a pharmacy rather than worry about what’s in your insurance plan. Depending on what you need and how frequently you need it, you might find that offers more savings than the insurance plan. There’s a year-old Consumer Reports article that compares various programs here - [Discount</a> Drug Programs - Consumer Reports](<a href=“http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/discount-drug-programs-can-save-you-money/index.htm]Discount”>Discount Drug Programs - Consumer Reports) – but of course the details of the plans are subject to change.</p>

<p>(I sure wish they had a prescription drug discount plan for dogs! They are the ones in my house who cost all the money for meds…)</p>

<p>"“I honestly think the “Affordable Care Act” should have been called the “Insurance Company Welfare Act” - because as far as I can tell, the private insurers make out like bandits.”</p>

<p>Well, that’s what the politicians wanted, despite majority support for single payor. And I think that’s why ACA is going to fail, because they’ve already given away the store, so there is nothing left for the government to bargain with.</p>

<p>Calmom, thanks for the info. You are a wealth of knowledge.</p>

<p>If ACA blows up, then IMO we’ll eventually get single-payer. I don’t think Americans have any stomach for going back to the days when insurers could turn sick people away, and you can’t have guaranteed issue unless you have something resembling mandatory enrollment. </p>

<p>It’s interesting that although people don’t like the idea of the law, almost every element of the law is extremely popular. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/march-2013-tracking-poll/[/url]”>http://kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/march-2013-tracking-poll/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>However, I don’t think we can assess ACA right now; it’s just too complex and people are too confused. I don’t think we’ll be able to assess it for at least several years.</p>

<p>I think people want the benefits but they don’t want to pay for them. Maybe the psychological draw of the subsidy will be enough of an inducement for those who would otherwise be on the fence about buying health insurance.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The average long term care stay in a nursing home is oxymoronically only 2.5 years. So do the math at around $75K average annual cost. Most of this is paid not by insurance, but out of pocket, long term care insurance, or mostly Medicaid. The 2.5 year nursing home costs may be cheaper than end of life care, which is paid by Medicare. Dementia folk may be cheaper than the general population in a nursing home. They do not, as a rule, receive physical or occupational therapy or other rehab services. Neither do other long term residents without dementia. People with dementia are on drugs. The anti-dementia drugs are demonstrably useless, but it is common to prescribe–off-label–powerful anti-psychotics and sedatives to control “undesirable” and “inappropriate behavior.” Drugs in nursing homes are a multi-billion dollar industry but cheaper than investing in more staff to hold the hands of the agitated and confused.</p>

<p>“I never see my health insurance premium bill because I put it all on my airline-miles visa card. I just pay my credit card monthly, and the more I put on the card, the more I rack up in points that can be applied to airfare on my favorite airline.”</p>

<p>Now that is an impressive use of a credit card. I didn’t realize you could put health insurance on a credit card, I guess, why not? Those airline miles are very valuable.</p>

<p>“I think people want the benefits but they don’t want to pay for them. Maybe the psychological draw of the subsidy will be enough of an inducement for those who would otherwise be on the fence about buying health insurance.”</p>

<p>People want the benefits, but they will be quite happy if somebody else pays for them. Those that get the highest subsidies will surely be the ones who choose these plans.</p>

<p>You spent a lot of time figuring this out, calmom. This is really useful information, and I will copy and paste your posts to send to people who are interested, if you don’t mind. You did all the legwork.</p>

<p>The Massachusetts experience suggests that people really do want insurance and are willing to pay for it, if it’s made affordable. Almost everyone in MA chose insurance instead of the penalty, even though the penalty was cheaper. Affordable, of course, is relative. Even with subsidies, though, it’s still better for the rest of us if the currently uninsured can begin to get routine and preventive care, and if we can avoid non-emergency visits to the ER.</p>

<p>Latchiver, this is from my post #564 on this thread. </p>

<p>[CDC</a> - Healthy Brain Initiative: Alzheimer’s Disease - Aging](<a href=“http://www.cdc.gov/aging/aginginfo/alzheimers.htm]CDC”>What is Alzheimer's Disease? | CDC)</p>

<p>These are the numbers from the CDC. You really should read the thread or do the research. These are the numbers from the CDC. I don’t know where your imaginary numbers are coming from.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Just to be clear: I want everyone to have access to medical care. I just want people to stop acting as if this is going to somehow save money. It’s not.</p>

<p>poetgrl, how do you figure that every other developed country in the world is able to ensure that all of their citizens have access to medical care, and yet their costs are massively lower than ours? It seems to me that it’s not access per se that drives costs so high.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Just about anything you pay monthly can be put on a credit card --utilities, insurance, cable, whatever – the companies are happy to set up the auto-bill; it guarantees they get paid on time. </p>

<p>I opted for an airline card because that particular airline has a good rewards program along with good connections to the cities where my kids live. </p>

<p>Another person might find it more advantageous to go for a cash-back card – that’s what my daughter prefers. </p>

<p>I think the light bulb moment came for me about a year ago – I realized that you can’t get decent interest these days on money you save, but you can get a pretty good rate of return on the money you spend.</p>

<p>Obviously, it’s a dumb idea to spend money unnecessarily for the sake of airline points or cash back rewards or whatever… but it makes a lot of sense for the monthly bills, assuming that you pay the balance in full every month. An added benefit is that once you set up auto-pay with a credit card, is that you never run into the situation of getting a cancellation notice because your check got lost or delayed in the mail. (Something that has happened to me more than once in the past)</p>

<p>Lasma, we already went over this yesterday, complete with charts, links and data. The fact is that health care spending in the US is the same as other similar countries until you get to 55 and after 60 it skyrockets, which does not happen in other countries.</p>

<p>It is not the ACA age group which is driving the costs higher. </p>

<p>It is the medicare age group. It is end of life care costs. It is people who think they should live forever.</p>

<p>But, I don’t CARE that we will end up paying more to make sure everyone has access to care, Lasma, I care that we are always being lied to like we are idiots, instead of simply being given the truth. Even someone as educated as you are, with access to the actual spending facts, is still just re-telling things you heard somewhere.</p>

<p>Look at it. Yourself. </p>

<p>Then, say, as I do, yes I want everyone to have care. I know nothing is free, and I’m okay with that.</p>

<p>But, don’t tell me that we spend more than other countries on any group but the elderly, or that if we were only making healthier choices (when the end of life care will arrive at some point and we will spend it at some point) it would be cheaper. It won’t be.</p>

<p>It’s okay that it won’t be AND it won’t be.</p>

<p>Have we shared this article?</p>

<p>[Health</a> care spending by age: America spends money on oldsters.](<a href=“http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/12/31/health_care_spending_by_age_america_spends_money_on_oldsters.html]Health”>Health care spending by age: America spends money on oldsters.)</p>

<p>While I agree that continued extreme medical interventions for terminal illnesses in the very old is inhumane and a waste of money, getting old is not a ‘fault’. Spending money on people who do nothing to keep themselves healthy is a real waste in my mind. And insurance premiums need to address this. There needs to be some financial penalty in not quitting smoking, in continuing to eat nothing but fried foods and weighing 300 pounds, in not taking medications as prescribed to get blood pressure under control, etc. etc. </p>

<p>I know that the responsible end up paying for the irresponsible, but it really grates on me.</p>

<p>As far as use of emergency rooms for non emergency situations, I don’t think the ACA is going to do much on its own to change that. There have been studies and anecdotally, I can tell you from my literacy work, that even when other options are available, the culture of going to the hospital is so deeply ingrained that it will not change easily. Habits die hard and in many communities this is such a habit as to be completely normal and expected.</p>