<p>This is hurting people in the middle. Concerns are not about being selfish. People who cannot afford to pay more are being forced to pay more after being promised that would not happen. In these countries where they have govt. healthcare there is no middle. My H is from one of these countries. There are rich and there are poor and where you are is where you stay. Whereas, here it used to be possible to move from poor, to middle, to rich. Now, we are shrinking the middle and growing the bottom. There is data for those who like to play with numbers but it’s very clear. And it’s sad.</p>
<p>“They could just be declared doctors after med school and move on if we don’t have this ridiculous 3 year residency requirement at almost minimum wage when they have already gone through 8 years of education.”</p>
<p>I believe one has earned an MD when one completes medical school. </p>
<p>Are you suggesting no further training at all or just that they be paid a real salary? And if the latter, how would that control cost?</p>
<p>Yes, there are people who can’t afford health insurance and eliminating the catastrophic plans only increases the costs of that health insurance. And will people who just barely afford insurance now be able to afford the really high deductibles?</p>
<p>Here’s another consideration. What did the website that doesn’t even work cost? 300 million, is the number I’ve seen. </p>
<p>For that amount of money, how many more medical school slots could have been opened up? There are plenty of qualified applicants who get rejected every year because there aren’t enough spaces in medical school. </p>
<p>UC Riverside is the first medical school to open on the west coast in 50 years. They had to pull teeth to get the legislature to cough up $15 million dollars to open a school for 50 students for the underserved Inland Empire. The gov preferred his expensive choo-choo instead. </p>
<p>Given that as a rough estimate, medical schools for 1,000 new medical students could open for just the cost of the website! And that’s building a whole new facility. Expanding existing facilities would cost less. </p>
<p>Government’s use of money is exasperating. You can have full Cadillac health insurance but if there aren’t any doctors to treat you, you have nothing.</p>
<p>“Are you suggesting no further training at all or just that they be paid a real salary? And if the latter, how would that control cost?”</p>
<p>I am contesting the fact that paying residents is some kind of charity from the government. They are not being paid wages commensurate with their education and they are not in some kind of Government charity program when they are working their behinds off for 3 years at 12.5 dollars an hour.</p>
<p>We have figured out how to hold them as low wage slaves once they have earned a degree by creating this training path beyond medical school. The 94,000 residents are helping us cut medical costs.</p>
<p>“In these countries where they have govt. healthcare there is no middle. My H is from one of these countries. There are rich and there are poor and where you are is where you stay.”</p>
<p>So there is no middle class in Canada or the UK?</p>
<p>That is according to my H from UK. Correct. He also has a rich brother in Canada. I have never visited either lovely place mostly because here we are in the middle and flying around the world is not in the now unworkable budget.</p>
<p>Well taxes are lower in Canada than the US now, which is interesting. Of course they and the UK have brutal immigration policies compared to ours, as well. So they don’t have the same ER issues we have.</p>
<p>I’m glad to see some discussion of the med school system. To me, that is the elephant in the room.</p>
<p>Please remember that when you talk about “those countries that have govt healthcare,” if you mean universal healthcare you are talking about every single first world country except the US. If you are going to generalize about social mobility, or anything else, you’d better not be generalizing from one or two countries.</p>
<p>And if you do look up social mobility, an area where there is plenty of economic research, you might be surprised how the US stacks up against other OECD countries.</p>
<p>You dont pay the penalty until you fill out your 2014 taxes, which isnt until April 2015 in a lot of cases. </p>
<p>I dont see people falling all over themselves to pay insurance rates that are higher than a minor penalty. And to pay them a year earlier than necessary.</p>
<p>There’s no more social mobility in the US. </p>
<p>There is the connected class, the political class, the working wealthy who are expected to pay the majority for everyone, and those who are increasingly reliant on the government class and connected class giving away the worker bee taxes. </p>
<p>If they raise the capital gains tax to the same rate as the working wealthy pay, then you will see social mobility again. Then the motivation to pay the working class more will arise. Not until then will we get social mobility back.</p>
<p>“That is according to my H from UK. Correct”</p>
<p>I have some every close friends who are British and live in the UK and they are very much middle class. They all own their own homes and cars, and go out to dinner, concerts and sporting events everyone once in awhile. They also take a hell of a lot more vacations then I can afford because they don’t have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for college for their kids. And, of course, they don’t have monthly health insurance premiums or deductibles they have to worry about, either.</p>
<p>TatinG, that 7% is the revenue stream for the medical school Not the government’s contributions towards tuition. When I attended medical school, the dean told us that the state and federal government contributed roughly $50,000 per year per student. I was suprised. But he would know.</p>
<p>Also several DO schools have opened in the last several years. Many of these programs have graduated students in excess of residency slots. We don’t need more physicians, we need more physicians in undeserved areas. We need Americans to take better care of themselves, stop smoking, lose weight and don’t use illegal drugs. Everyone can make the system better.</p>
<p>There were complaints galore about social security as well. My DH’s father was outraged he should have to pay into the system, when they corraled the doctors and made them pay too. THere are those who could do better paying themselves that 12% or so and investing it, but more who do would not. An uncle in our family who complained so bitterly about paying soc security because he was sure he’d never get a dime, is basically living on it and Medicare right now. His own money has long been gone.</p>
<p>Emilybee -Perhaps, the problem is how we define middle. They sound rich. There are people across town who would call me rich because I have a decent house, car, college-education for kids, etc. But, just barely and it’s takes a bit of effort. That could be middle depending on where you draw the line.</p>
<p>I’m not complaining. Just noticing and discussing.</p>
<p>“I dont see people falling all over themselves to pay insurance rates that are higher than a minor penalty. And to pay them a year earlier than necessary.”</p>
<p>Looking at the people on this tread who already had individual coverage, I haven’t seen one of them say they are going to forgo getting covered and just pay the penalty.</p>
<p>Folks I know in Britain are paying about $15K a year in tuition, which is similar to many state schools here and a lot more than what my state charges for the publics. Private schools can cost whatever, whereever. Whatever the market will bear.</p>
<p>TatinG the catastrohic plans dont work. You need
people to pay for the poor. You need the healthier people to pay for the sick. The catastrophic plans dont fund as well. The premiums are too low. I posted a link about catastrophic plans earlier. </p>
<p>We are subsidizing people. We are subsidizing the sick and the poor and those with preconditions. Maybe the aged. Those that have babies. We are.</p>
<p>The subsidies dont stop with just premiums. You buy a silver plan while you are getting
subsidies for premiums and you get other costs of health care subsidized too.</p>
<p>Did the state of Cal come up with the money to fund Riverside?</p>
<p>A lot of the subsidies in life are not direct. A friend of mine heads a dept in a very esteemed institution. I think most medical students would go into contortions if they could get in there.
Reasersch us done and partially funded from
the public sector. This creates jobs in the institution. The research is given away free to public and private companies. The companies use the research to make products. The companies hire people. The companies make money for the executives and shareholders. The products are used to make people healthier and to save lives. My friend’s institution received the money and so many people benefit.</p>
<p>A lot of money that govt provides goes to a physical plant. Goes to fund equipment. Computers. Goes to doctors and professors and other phds. </p>
<p>Medical school tuition for Texas public schools is $50,000 a year?</p>
<p>In Britain they decide early on which kids are on a college track and which are vocational. It’s just all around very different. Comparisons probably are pointless. They don’t even do insurance. They do universal care. And they don’t do dental very well. LOL</p>