<p>Here’s a reliable source for the 50 million uninsured number, as well as a breakdown of who they are:</p>
<p><a href=“http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/01/7451-08.pdf[/url]”>http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2013/01/7451-08.pdf</a></p>
<p>The Kaiser Family Foundation does a ton of good work in the area of health care information.</p>
<p>Busdriver11, </p>
<p>Your policies dont work. The numbers dont add up. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. </p>
<p>Sometimes people believe things and they are mathematically impossible.</p>
<p>I do disagree with policies that cant happen.</p>
<p>You talk about policies that are possible and then we can discuss philosophy.</p>
<p>This whole idea about making more cookies doesnt work. It still depends on who gets the cookies. 90 percent of the income gains in the whole country goes to a very small percentage of people. We are making more cookies but distribution matters. </p>
<p>Some people argue that only a small percentage of people should get the reward for making cookies. That is a philosophy I dont necessarily share. And 90 percent of all income gains goes to 1 percent of the people? 3 percent of the people? 10 percent? I think it is less than 10 percent. A large segment of the population doesnt have enough cookies to afford health care. </p>
<p>So do you subsidize those that cant afford healthcare or not? It you are really in favor of helping the poor or lower middle class, you are going to have to take some cookies away from others. That is a fact.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang, where in that document does it say 50 million people were uninsured? </p>
<p>Your probably right that my premium skyrocketed because of community rating and guaranteed issue, but tell me where anyone in the Administration said this would happen to the middle class? Were they truthful?</p>
<p>I still can’t create an account, even at night. I get: “Important: Your account couldnt [sic] be created at this time. The system is unavailable.” This is stupid.</p>
<p>I am always weary of people who express an opinion and swear it is a fact.</p>
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<p>Poor adults in the states that didn’t do Medicaid expansion will still be uninsured; that’s about eight million people. Undocumented immigrants will also still be uninsured.</p>
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<p>On the first page, the first sentence in the first paragraph. “In 2011, 48 million nonelderly Americans were uninsured. Nearly all of the elderly are insured by Medicare, yet nearly 690,000 of the elderly were uninsured in 2011.*” Are you quibbling that 49-ish million is being rounded up to 50 million?</p>
<p>Here’s the thing, though, Goldenpooch: This is what health care costs. Big employers were already paying in the neighborhood of your new premium for policies like the one you’ll be getting, because that’s how much it costs to insure someone of your age. My husband’s employer was already paying something like your numbers for our insurance. That’s what it costs. It has nothing to do with subsidies.</p>
<p>You were lucky. In the individual market, insurers could cherrypick healthy people like you. But big employers couldn’t do that; they have the employees they have, and the ones who are 50 or older might get sick. So those employers had to pay the average cost for their employees 50 or older, and it’s big, as you are now discovering.</p>
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<p>Medicare Part D - also described as a train wreck. </p>
<p>[Medicare</a> Part D off to rocky start | Drug Topics](<a href=“http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com/drug-topics/news/medicare-part-d-rocky-start]Medicare”>http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com/drug-topics/news/medicare-part-d-rocky-start)</p>
<p>Okay, I see it Cardinal Fang. Can anyone explain why over 30 million will continue to be uninsured after full implementation of the law. Apparently, the Medicaid exemption in some states only accounts for a few million.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang, most people who get their insurance from their employment have much better insurance than me.</p>
<p>Here’s the paper about the 30 million uninsured post ACA:</p>
<p>[The</a> Uninsured After Implementation Of The Affordable Care Act: A Demographic And Geographic Analysis ? Health Affairs Blog](<a href=“http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2013/06/06/the-uninsured-after-implementation-of-the-affordable-care-act-a-demographic-and-geographic-analysis/]The”>http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2013/06/06/the-uninsured-after-implementation-of-the-affordable-care-act-a-demographic-and-geographic-analysis/)</p>
<p>It doesn’t tell me why there are 30 million uninsured after full implementation of Obamacare.</p>
<p>I read from another source that of the 50 million people, 10 million are not citizens, and another 11 million are eligible for Medicaid or the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP). This leaves 30 million. Of that number, there are millions who could pay for insurance that chose not to. The number of people who actually do not have insurance because of a preexisting condition or are too poor to afford it, is a much lower number than the 50 million number.</p>
<p>Most of the 30m will be low income who make too much to get Medicaid but not enough to afford policies through the exchanges.</p>
<p>Goldenpooch, I have not read that most of them will be those who choose to be uninsured. Can you provide that source?</p>
<p>It is by the process of elimination. If you take out the people who are not citizens, eligible for Medicaid and CHIP and make more than $75,00 (I think) according to tax and census data, the number is much lower.</p>
<p>Here is a quote from Wikipedia:</p>
<p>“It has been estimated that nearly one-fifth of the uninsured population is able to afford insurance, almost one quarter is eligible for public coverage, and the remaining 56% need financial assistance (8.9% of all Americans). An estimated 5 million of those without health insurance are considered “uninsurable” because of preexisting conditions. A recent study concluded that 15% of people shopping online for health insurance are considered “uninsurable” because of a preexisting condition, or for being overweight. This label does not necessarily mean they can never get health insurance, but that they will not qualify for standard individual coverage. People with similar health status can be covered via employer-provided health insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid.”</p>
<p>BTW, the numbers from Wikipedia are including non-citizens among the uninsured</p>
<p>Here’s another report on the currently uninsured. It’s just data tables:</p>
<p><a href=“http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2012/10/7451-08-data_tables.pdf[/url]”>http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2012/10/7451-08-data_tables.pdf</a></p>
<p>If you do a little calculation from Table 1, you compute that roughly 10% of the uninsured are above 400% of the poverty line (I’m doing the arithmetic in my head, but it’s about 10%). Another 13% are between 250% and 400% of the poverty line. That leaves 77% of the uninsured at <250% of the poverty line.</p>
<p>We can argue what level of income is enough to afford insurance. And of course, it’s easier to afford insurance when you’re young and premiums are cheaper.</p>
<p>" There’s a limited market and a zero sum game. You’ve been hogging all the cookies whether you realize or it or not. The goal is to have enough cookies to go around."</p>
<p>Nah, not really. Been paying health insurance premiums and copays to a self insured company for almost two decades, rarely using the benefits. It has been a net positive for the company. Even with the company taking tax deductions on what they’ve decided they paid for the policy, it has been a net positive for them/negative for us (except, of course, peace of mind). Really hasn’t taken away from anybody else’s health coverage.</p>
<p>“So do you subsidize those that cant afford healthcare or not? It you are really in favor of helping the poor or lower middle class, you are going to have to take some cookies away from others. That is a fact.”</p>
<p>Of course you subsidize them. I thought that was the point. I didn’t think it was to make everyone “equal” in misery and healthcare, but to help those who couldn’t get insurance or pay for it. You wonder how to pay for it? Well, I don’t see that forcing other people to lose decent insurance is going to pay for it. It is going to be a massive bill, funded by much higher taxes. And those numbers do add up. Debt and tax? Infinite.</p>
<p>IMO, insurance should be one of the first things on everyone’s budget along with food, shelter, and clothing. </p>
<p>If you have enough income for food, shelter and clothing, then your next dollars should be spent on health insurance. If there’s no money left after that, then it’s <em>something else</em> that you can’t afford. </p>
<p>YMMV, of course.</p>
<p>I agree, axw. And forget clothing, you can get that for next to nothing at the thrift store. Health insurance after food and shelter.</p>