<p>Tating, I like your post at 2:13. It wasn’t crazy. :)</p>
<p>Back then when the paralegal’s wife had a baby with birth defects, they were treated at the best hospitals in the city. Expert providers, low deductibles… The care that upper management got was the same care and choice of providers that everyone got. This will not happen if employer-based insurance goes away. Which I think is what the architects of ACA want.</p>
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<p>This is why we need post numbers. I went through several pages looking for “2:13” by TG and couldn’t find it.
But derp, that’s because your 2:13 is MY 5:13. </p>
<p>Sigh. carry on. </p>
<p>@CardinalFang:
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<p>Shield Saver 6000 would have meant $6000 annual deductible, per person ($12K per family). Page 8 of the plan description shows how “amazing” it was:</p>
<p>Example: routine delivery, total charges $7540, plan pays $1390, patient pays $6150
Example: managing type 2 diabetes, total charges $5400, insurance pays 0, patient pays $5490. (I love the way that patient ends up paying MORE than the insurance would cover without a deductible)</p>
<p>See: <a href=“Blue Shield of California | California Health Insurance”>Blue Shield of California | California Health Insurance;
<p>Now the person presumably has a Bronze plan with a $5000 deductible. The premiums might have gone up, but benefits kick in sooner. And of course BS was planning on passing through a 9% premium increase anyway. Great plan? probably not. But I’d say that it compares pretty well on the “amazing” metric. LOL. </p>
<p>I spent 3 1/2 hours on the phone last night with my ex-H, walking him through signing up for health insurance on the exchange. He hasn’t had insurance since he lost his accounting job two years ago–now he works at Macy’s. His new policy is going to cost him $29 a month, with $150 deductible.</p>
<p>The Shield Saver 6000 is vastly superior to the Obamacare bronze plan. Using Calmom’s examples, the person would pay at least $5,000 and probably more like $6,000 out of pocket when you count the copay for the routine delivery and close to $5,400 for the type 2 diabetes under the Obamacare plan while paying a much higher premium. Lastly, the Shield Saver network is light years better than the Obamacare BS network. This was a huge downgrade for this person, particularly if she is not getting all that taxpayer money to pay the premiums.</p>
<p>I also forgot to add coverage for non-formulary drugs.</p>
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<p>Except that some people did like their new plans. And also, are you saying that if you told the insurance company no thank you, I do not want to do business with you any more, they still enrolled you in a plan? Really?</p>
<p>@stevensmama - great news! </p>
<p>Great news, stevensmama. That was kind of you.</p>
<p>stevensmania, so an accountant is making poverty wages in today’s economy. That’s probably as much as a problem as the issues many people are having with Obamacare.</p>
<p>Yes! I so agree. The problem is not heath insurance. The problem is an accountant has to work at Macy’s. Sigh. </p>
<p>The problem is both that an Accountant is working at Macy’s and well health insurance isnt a problem… Anymore.</p>
<p>$29 a month. Very nice.</p>
<p>From twitter…</p>
<p>“Consumers rushing in as deadline approaches. 2M visits to HealthCare.gov and 380k calls so far this weekend. #GetCoveredNow.”</p>
<p>Okay, it is misleading to say the cost is $29/month. The COST of the coverage is the unsubsidized cost - someone is paying for the difference. So, in the name of honesty please post both the full cost and then the resulting subsidized cost. It would also be interesting to see the full cost differences between states.</p>
<p>A while back I posted a link to an ACA quiz by the Christian Science Monitor. One of the questions was - how much in additional premium did the average family pay to cover cost shifting. I was surprised it was only an additional $1000/year. So, the real question is, will these average families that have already been footing the bill for the subsidized now be paying even more - to subsidize more. My guess is - absolutely.</p>
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<p>Then in the name of honesty (of course) can we state the FULL cost pre-ACA of employer-subsidized insurance? </p>
<p>“Except that some people did like their new plans. And also, are you saying that if you told the insurance company no thank you, I do not want to do business with you any more, they still enrolled you in a plan? Really?”</p>
<p>No, I never said that. What I did say is that the plan you did chose was probably no better than the lousy plan Blue Shield was selecting for you. Hence, there was no good alternative after your plan was cancelled.</p>
<p>The cost to the patient is the cost to the patient. If you are worried about the cost to society, check out the CBO budget. </p>
<p>I dont know too many people that say I pay 600 a month in premiums and the govt picks up an additional 300 by the govt giving me a tax break.</p>
<p>There are no secrets here. Check the budget.</p>
<p>TatinG, My sister has this.
<a href=“Atypical trigeminal neuralgia - Wikipedia”>http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atypical_trigeminal_neuralgia</a></p>
<p>She was treated at Stanford for years. Stanford did very little for her. She is on morphine.</p>
<p>She bought a Kaiser plan this year. They have a coordinated team workibg with her. A dietician. Physical therapist. Psychiatrist. Etc. She is feeling a little better. She says the care she is getting at Kaiser is much better than the care she received at Stanford. </p>
<p>Her ACA plan is better for her than her previous plan.</p>
<p>That is my anecdote for the day.</p>
<p>The people who miscalculated their income will learn the full cost when the IRS comes clawing back the money next tax season. </p>
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<p>Let’s recall what this cost shifting is: it’s the extra cost because now people with pre-existing conditions can still buy insurance, whereas before the ACA those people could not buy insurance.</p>
<p>The amount the average family pays in additional premium to cover insurance subsidies is zero.</p>
<p>@TatinG – how long ago was “Back then” (your post about the paralegal’s wife).</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s valuable to conflate market pressures with ACA – part of the reason for ACA was an effort to stem already existing tide toward rising health care costs. Lots of people who have employer provided health insurance have seen cutbacks in benefits and networks over the past decade or so; and buyers on the individual market have faced ever-increasing deductibles and premiums going back at least 20 years. I’m pretty sure that HSA’s were introduced in 2004 as part of an effort to address that trend – as a way to make the high deductible model more attractive to middle class taxpayers. </p>
<p>So yeah, I had really great, marvelous, cheap insurance in 1988. I had 100% coverage for my daughter’s birth. My insurance even generally paid the bills of some other person in a different wing of the hospital who happened to have the same last name as mine. (I called the insurance company to point out their mistake – but perhaps the same company would have covered the other patient anyway – it was Blue Cross back in the day before they were taken over by Wellpoint / Anthem). </p>
<p>But by the early 90’s we were already running into issues hanging onto affordable insurance. It was probably around 9’93 or '94 that we shifted to buying separate individual policies for each family member to hold down costs, because we couldn’t afford the premium for a family policy with a reasonable deductible for the kids. </p>
<p>“There are no secrets here. Check the budget.”</p>
<p>LOL Check the budget is akin to saying the check is in the mail.</p>