<p>Well, I agree with all of that but bureaucracy and medical care don’t mix well is all the vast majority is going to hear. And, I’m not whining. But, people are finally noticing that some of this is not going very well. That’s all.</p>
<p>Medical care without bureaucracy means no insurance policies, no Medicare, no Medicaid, no single payer. Who is in favor of that? I don’t even get it.</p>
<p>Oh come on, Fang, don’t be so logical. </p>
<p>I can’t look it up right now, but I heard on the radio that someone is suing CA Blue Shield over narrow networks. Good. CA courts have a long history of spanking insurers. </p>
<p>Here are a couple of comments from Obamacare supporters about the VA a few years ago.</p>
<p>“No, I’m not talking about some faraway country. The system in question is our very own Veterans Health Administration, whose success story is one of the best-kept secrets in the American policy debate.” Paul Krugman</p>
<p>And in 2009, “one of my favorite ideas” is “expanding the Veterans Health Administration to non-veterans.” Ezra Klein</p>
<p>Are you aware that ACA has nothing to do with the VA, and vice versa?</p>
<p>LasMa, they are not unrelated. Proponents of universal health care are citing the “success” of the VA system in GP’s quotes. And, we all know ACA is a messy compromise and no-one’s ultimate goal.</p>
<p>Flossy for all the problems the VA and Medicare have do you think veterans and seniors want to end both programs and go to the private insurance model?</p>
<p>Some dead vets and families right now probably yes. Seniors most likely no because of cost. But, I think I’m missing your point. Unless you are saying the government is better at managing health care than the private sector. Then, we probably disagree. So far it’s a little iffy. imho.</p>
<p>Tom, if its free or heavily subsidized, probably not. However, I, for one, would prefer to pay for a private insurance model even after becoming Medicare eligible. I want quick access and the best medical care possible for my family, and I am willing to pay for it. </p>
<p>I know a doctor in town, the husband of the former mayor (a committed liberal) who works for the VA, and he has told me some incredible stories of how veterans are getting subpar medical care in an untimely fashion.</p>
<p>ACA certainly isn’t my ultimate goal, and it is indeed a messy compromise designed to keep the insurance companies happy above all else. But the question is, and always had been, if not ACA, then what? Flossy? </p>
<p>I am saying that while national systems are not perfect overall for the majority of people they are better. Lets consider the 15 freest economies in the world ranked by CATO which of those with a national HC system would end their system and move towards our old system?</p>
<p>Bluebayou, as was pointed out, what you describe is not usually what people mean by selling across state lines. What you describe is legal now. Aetna, Cigna - there are lots of insurance companies that sell in multiple states because they have complied with each state’s requirements. </p>
<p>When people talk about changing, they mean by-passing the requirements and oversight of the individual states. </p>
<p>We also need to keep in mind that there are going to be adjustments, lots of them. The narrow network problem will be addressed, for example. And if it can’t be, then maybe we will move toward the solution which must not be named. But sorry, GP, as much as you want to, we’re never going back to the good old days when 45 million Americans didn’t have access to health care. Ain’t gonna happen. </p>
<p>"Here are a couple of comments from Obamacare supporters about the VA a few years ago.</p>
<p>“No, I’m not talking about some faraway country. The system in question is our very own Veterans Health Administration, whose success story is one of the best-kept secrets in the American policy debate.” Paul Krugman</p>
<p>And in 2009, “one of my favorite ideas” is “expanding the Veterans Health Administration to non-veterans.” Ezra Klein"</p>
<p>So? </p>
<p>Last I knew neither Krugman nor Klein are legislators and no one that I am aware of in Congress has championed a NHS like health care system for the entire US. Neither the public option nor Medicare for all (the two most popular ideas put forth during debates about universal heath insurance program) is a health delivery system. </p>
<p>It would be interesting however to see how popular an idea it would be to disband the VA. I’m guessing not very - even with the latest problems, especially among veterans. </p>
<p>And for everyone’s viewing enjoyment:</p>
<p><a href=“The Daily Show with Trevor Noah - TV Series | Comedy Central US”>The Daily Show with Trevor Noah - TV Series | Comedy Central US;
<p>“But sorry, GP, as much as you want to, we’re never going back to the good old days when 45 million Americans didn’t have access to health care.”</p>
<p>Okay, instead we will now have a system where there will be probably more than 30 million uninsured and the other 15 million will continue to use emergency rooms because access to medical care from private providers will be non-existent due to narrow networks, high deductibles and primary care doctor shortages. In exchange for these wonderful changes, millions of people who had good insurance now will also be stuck with these lousy networks and will probably be using emergency rooms more frequently. </p>
<p>“But the question is, and always had been, if not ACA, then what? Flossy?”</p>
<p>Okay, I don’t understand this question. It’s nearly 3-thousand pages which next to no-one understands and most of it is on hold. Then what? be could anything. The people who voted for this voted for an general idea. Specifics are the problem and they have a remarkable lack of interest in specifics. And truth.</p>
<p>‘Specifics’ are the messy part. The part that has to deal with both economics (difficult) and human behavior (wishing it better never pans out, but…).</p>
<p>Speaking of wishing, this thread is turning into the place for wishful thinking to curl up and quietly expire.</p>
<p>Flossy, I’ll try to make it simple for you. What would you have done to make insurance available to the 45 million who didn’t have it? </p>
<p>We can all sit back and watch Vermont’s experiment due to start in 2017. They are going single payer. One small glitch is they haven’t figured out how to finance it yet. Doctors are leery. Will they leave the state in droves if they can make more money elsewhere? Will hospitals close? Will people move out? Will the state go broke? Maybe those of you who want government paid health care will move there. </p>