<p>Your school didn’t require health insurance? How did you know had a malfunctioning gallbladder?</p>
<p>Okay. So you had stomach trouble after which you bought an insurance policy and got things fixed before ACA. Yay. I don’t quite know what the point is, though. </p>
<p>.</p>
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</p>
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<p>You and I must have two very different definitions of “accuse” </p>
<p>Yes, LasMa, several people guessed correctly. In fact, the first doctor got it wrong and you people sent me back to the ER demanding I get my gall bladder checked IIRC. </p>
<p>Flossy, did you see my second question in #15235?</p>
<p>As I recall, romani also discussed all this on this thread or its older sister. It’s no mystery. The “C’mon” post wasn’t some show of empathy. Nor is the prodding now. Let’s move on.</p>
<p>Romani, I was skeptical. And, now it turns out you did buy insurance when you decided it was necessary. </p>
<p>Lasma, there are dozens of alternate health care reform plans floating around. But, what difference does it make now?</p>
<p>I wonder why none of those “dozens” of alternative plans have ever actually been introduced in Congress? </p>
<p>^^ Actually, those plans were introduced, but never allowed to come out of committee to the floor - for the obvious reason - they pushed the ACA since Dems controlled the House and Senate at that time. The Senate, where the rules are different, allowed more introduction of bills. </p>
<p>For example, here are five introductions: (There were actually more)</p>
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</p>
<p>Above excerpted from Forbes article:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/28/seriously-the-republicans-have-no-health-plan/2/”>http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/28/seriously-the-republicans-have-no-health-plan/2/</a></p>
<p>I went back and looked at the thread where Romani complained about her stomach pain in 2012. She did have a HMO health insurance plan that she could have used but it would have required her to go home where her parents lived in Michigan. She did end up going to a doctor, had a bunch of tests and was diagnosed with a hernia and a H pylori problem. So she didn’t have the gall bladder operation because she thought she had another disease which could be treated with medicine. BTW, many posters on that thread said vile things about HMO plans. Most vowed never to enroll in such a plan. </p>
<p>The narrow network Obamacare plans today are in many ways like HMO plans: no out of network coverage or very low reimbursement for out of network coverage. </p>
<p>I don’t think it would be fair to say based on her thread in 2012 that she couldn’t get her gall bladder treated because she had no insurance or she couldn’t afford it. </p>
<p>^^ Hey, hey, hey GP - please be fair to those horrible HMOs that were no good. </p>
<p>Last time I checked, HMOs did not charge men for Pap Smears, Mammograms, birth control pills, and HPV vaccines. But somehow ACA thinks that males should have those as part of their coverage. Ditto for females who have to pay for PSA tests etc. </p>
<p>Give HMOs credit, they actually charged people for what they could use. </p>
<p>Flossy, you may have to reiterate what I said in my previous post about Romani because the pro-Obamacare gang has put me on ignore. They must have discussed this privately because it looks like they are telling everyone who is in favor of Obamacare to put me on ignore. Trust me, I really don’t care at all because anything I had to say was routinely ignored by them anyway, so having me on ignore is really no different than before. It does say something about this group in their inability to listen to opposing viewpoints that don’t match their preconceived notions. Too much cognitive dissonance for this crowd.</p>
<p>Just saw your post, awcntdb. Yeah, apparently the pro-Obamacare crowd didn’t like HMO’s in 2012.</p>
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</p>
<p>Vs.
Romani waiting a year to afford the surgery</p>
<p>Vs. kmcmom’s having the same emergency service in the US</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Canadian direct cost = zero …via taxes in the middle class that average 1% more than US…but a 15% VAT on goods and services. </p></li>
<li><p>Romani…pooled BCBS insurance, while a student, I’m gonna guess her copay would be the same 20% mine was, so about $2,800, plus of course, premiums, deductible, etc. AS A STUDENT.</p></li>
<li><p>Kmcmom’s - pooled BCBS insurance, cost= about $2,800 copay and about $1,000 deductible and about $13,500 in insurance premiums (family of 3 at the time)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>So, lets just say the poor Canuck is “low” income at $30,000 earnings. To be me, that Canuck would have had to spend $17,300 to have had my emergency service. More than half their annual income. I had a 2 cm gallstone stuck in my duct. The equivalent in Canada would have been treated as truly emergency service. No charge either way.</p>
<p>Put another way, what might Romani and I do with an extra $17,300 in a given year. Buy a car? A new home? Consumer goods the might have stimulated the economy? Paid more in taxes on those goods and indirectly funded public education?</p>
<p>Who knows? None of us on the thread might ever know. But earlier, y’all posted about American’s net worth dwindling. To me, there’s little wonder why. There’s also little wonder why the lionshare of our GDP is healthcare :)</p>
<p>Those “poor Canucks” might be too dumb to realize what they have – I’m related to many of them and can assure you they’ll complain about their three hour wait at emergency…but not a one of them can ever conceive paying $13,500 a year for the privilege of…you guessed it, waiting the same damned 3 hours at emergency 
and then paying their deductible and copay!</p>
<p>I, on the other hand, have lived in both worlds, and see clearly who the poor dumb ones really are…and might even resemble that remark ;)</p>
<p>“Now consider those poor Canadians and people in the UK. They wait 6 months to have a choler ecystectomy. 6 months of enduring that kind of pain. 6 months of worrying whether the gall bladder will rupture.”</p>
<p>That is not true. I have very dear friends who live in the UK and we talk a lot about our aches and pains (all of us are 50+, so) The only difference between us is that they never bring up how costly their medical care is - because - it’s FREE! Unlike here where the costliness is always talked about along with which med procedure one is contemplating. </p>
<p>One of my friends work at a NHS surgery (our doctors office) and guess what - there are actually real doctors who work there and they do real doctor stuff on patients every day. Just like here. </p>
<p>“Actually, those plans were introduced, but never allowed to come out of committee to the floor - for the obvious reason”</p>
<p>The R’s have been in control of the House since 2010 and all of the committees. What plans have they introduced and brought to a vote in the House since? </p>
<p>Just read a story out of one of the British newspapers last night. A woman telling the story of her gall bladder surgery. She only had to wait from January to June (and then only got the June spot for surgery due to a cancellation). She wasn’t complaining. I guess she is used to such delays in NHS. In Alberta, the wait times for such a surgery can be 25 weeks, which is 6 months. Canada has operating rooms go unused because there no government money to pay. Physicians complain that their skills get rusty because they can’t do many procedures, no money.</p>
<p>I had a about two weeks from attack, to quick diagnosis, to surgeons office, to surgery. And I had an individual policy at the time. And I was able to choose my hospital and surgeon. </p>
<p>I don’t remember what I was paying for the insurance at the time, but we are middle class, not rich. If the premiums had been a burden, I would remember. </p>
<p>I don’t have to read newspaper accounts of NHS wait times. I have real life friends there who tell me about their medical issues and various doctor appt they go to when medical issues crop up. Right now two are being treated for frozen shoulders (they are getting cortisone shots and PT for now - of no improvement, surgery might be necessary eventually. </p>
<p>Two are going for female issues. They both have had several different therapies and one just finally had to have a surgery. She hemmed and hawed over having it for a few months - wanted to give the non invasive therapies a try first and hated the idea of having the surgical procedure done - but it ended up being necessary. Once she decided, her surgery was scheduled for the next week. </p>
<p>The other friend with similar females issues had more success with non surgical therapy but problem is not 100% resolved. So she had to have another ultrasound - which was scheduled immediately after her last gyno visit. Just waiting now for appt with gyno this coming Tuesday (had ultrasound last Weds) to go over the results. </p>
<p>Nothing is any different for my friends, in terms of procedures or wait times for and between appointments, then here. </p>
<p>There are tons of posts on this thread about the OOP expense people, on this very thread, have encountered, before ACA and after. Also, people on this thread who couldn’t have necessary medical treatment they needed because…IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE and they COULDN’T AFFORD it. </p>
<p>LF: This thread has taken many an odd turn. Someone can make it about themselves.</p>
<p>Emily: You’ll just have to pass the bill to find out what’s in the bill. Seems to have worked so well the first time around…</p>
<p>Here is the outline…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/bf0c9823-29c7-4078-b8af-aa9a12213eca/The%20Patient%20CARE%20Act%20-%20LEGISLATIVE%20PROPOSAL.pdf”>http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/bf0c9823-29c7-4078-b8af-aa9a12213eca/The%20Patient%20CARE%20Act%20-%20LEGISLATIVE%20PROPOSAL.pdf</a></p>
<p>Google…it’s a great thing…</p>
<p>David Klemencic, an appellant in the Halbig case, is expected to make $20,000. He could buy health insurance under ACA that would cost him about $21 for a year.</p>
<p>He doesnt want to buy the insurance. What happens to this guy if he doesnt buy insurance and gets sick? Who pays?</p>