Ahhh the corporate life

Parent Cafe
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<p>“I CHOSE to get out” - that’s the whole point, nedad. This is not a jail sentence. It’s a choice. You chose to leave, I choose to stay. Being 100% self-employed would require more than I want to give right now - time away from my children, longer hours than I care to work, etc. Self-employment isn’t best for everyone at any given time. </p>

<p>When it ends, whether it be my choice or theirs, no hard feelings. The problem some with people in corporate life is that they never plan beyond it. Smart corporate employees develop an exit strategy and continually work to refine that plan. “Those who didn’t leave with me ended up out on the street.”
I don’t get this. You, too, were on the street - but you were there by choice. Sounds like you had a plan and they didn’t. Shame on them. What does this have to do with them leaving with you? Did you offer them a job with your new venture? </p>

<p>Maybe I just view corporate life differently. Layoffs have always been typical in my working life. I wasn’t working when “jobs for life” was the norm. I expect to be laid off and I know where I’m going when it happens. In my view, my company works for me just as much as I work for them. Yulsie has it right…you sell your time, skill and knowledge. If my employer lays me off, I take my time, skill and knowledge to someone else. Its not like they get to erase my mind before I leave. </p>

<p>nedad, it really sounds like your mindset is more appropriate for people who sit around expecting to never get the axe - and are shocked and caught off-guard when it happens. In that case, it matters that you chose to get out. For people who think that the axe can fall at anytime, the only difference between them and you is that they aren’t choosing the day when they leave and they leave with a severance package. They still have a fully baked plan to be executed at any given moment. </p>

<p>Trust me, my next 12 years will be even better than the last 12 - no matter where I am…because I have built value in myself. My resume is a carefully planned map of calculated moves, designed to give me experience in various aspects of the business with increasing levels of responsibility and challenge. Its not the perks that matter, its the knowledge I’ve gained and the name I’ve made for myself in my industry. </p>

<p>That’s the key to success incorporate life - visibility that extends beyond the walls of your corporate office. You become your own entity. Nobody can take that away from you. </p>

<p>You missed my point on the theme park issue. My point is that my children don’t view this as having a parent who runs a rat race. I’m not on the road 5 days a week, I don’t work long hours in the office, I’m not sitting at home stressing about deadlines, etc. I’m having a great time. My son can look back and say “mom my worked in corp America and she had a great time with it - so did we”. </p>

<p>If this doesn’t make sense, and your experience was so vastly different, I’m sorry.</p>

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<p>90% of people in corporations have a far different reality. More like if you don’t come in Saturday don’t bother showing up on Sunday. That is the real motto for folks at a major advertising agency.</p>

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<p>barrons, I think that’s more than a slight exaggeration. Perhaps 90% of advertising agencies, I don’t know because I’m not familiar with them but certainly not 90% of corporations, in general. We have many friends who work for corporations, large and small, and very few work on Saturdays, regardless of their position. My H works for a large corporation and he rarely has the need to go in on weekends, although he does occasionally have work to do at home. It’s the same for everyone who reports to him, and also for his colleagues. </p>

<p>Like with any job, some are happy with the corporate life and some aren’t. There’s no single right or wrong career path for any one person.</p>

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<p>Needing to work 7 days a week is a sign of inneficiency and poor planning. A company who mandates such isn’t a place of balance and productivity. Top performers won’t work there and aren’t drawn to such a place. It sounds like a symptom of a larger issue. </p>

<p>My own VP requires a fast paced schedule during the day so he can be done by 4:30 most days - his son plays sports and he coaches. His boss, a woman/mother, is a strong supported of family balance. She once told me that she is such a maniac during the day because she needs to leave at a decent hour and get home to her kids. We celebrated a team achievement in early '05, 100% of '04 vacation days taken. </p>

<p>If someplace required weekend work as a standard, I wouldn’t work there. I guess “culture” is a variable - not every large company is the same. I can imagine that a corporate culture can also vary within a company - in various organizations. We’re a profitable business unit. If we were losing money, I don’t know how the landscape would differ.</p>

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<p>I actually did work for a couple of years for the corporation that spawned Dilbert. Scott Adams (who left shortly before I arrived) confirmed to me in an email that my boss was in fact the inspiration for a minor Dilbert character. That boss was utterly incompetent, but the guy he reported to was simply malevolent.</p>

<p>It was a bad place to work, where being tall and having “executive hair” really did seem to have a lot to do with who got promoted. </p>

<p>I had an exit interview with my boss’s boss’s boss, and was very frank about the malevolent guy, and his penchant for managing by humiliation. To the company’s credit, it wasn’t long before they gave the malevolent guy a “special assignment,” and not long after that before he was out the door.</p>

<p>A couple of stops later, I came to my current corporate employer, where I have had generally positive experiences, and great learning experiences. If I leave here before retirement (which I assume is very likely), I will do so as someone with far greater depth of experience than I had when I arrived.</p>

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<p>

Boy, you must not be in I.T. My h. works for a very large, very well-known international company. Those computers have to run 24-7. And when there is a problem that affects the supply chain, it can affect the bottom line of the company. There is a lot of pressure having some responsibility in the profitability of an international company. </p>

<p>Some of the people that work under him are in the US, and some are overseas. This requires phonecalls at all hours of the night and day. And if there is a problem at 3 in the morning Sunday morning, there are conference calls, and disaster recovery meetings and all sorts of emergency planning if the problem isn’t quickly resolved. Some can be handled from home, but oftentimes it requires going into the office and staying up all night with the team dealing with the problem. Add to it all the pain in the a$$ regulations that have to be documented when changes are made in the computers thanks to Sarbanes-Oxley (sp?). Then there are all the follow-up calls and meetings. etc. etc. etc. His phone rings more than mine does, and I am the one in healthcare.</p>

<p>Your VP has it easy, but the “little people” that are in operations are the ones working their butts off to make sure the company is running smoothly while he goes home at 4:30.</p>

<p>I am not saying that my h. doesn’t have the opportunity to be out of the office at various times of the day. He does. And there have been plenty of benefits from being in corporate America. But there are challenges too-- oops, the correct term is “opportunities”, not “challenges”. Managing difficult people, dealing with HR issues and staff issues,and political issues, etc etc. </p>

<p>But to say that that someone who doesn’t take all nights and weekends off is inefficient or engages in poor planning is not only short-sighted, it is unkind.</p>

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<p>Momsdream:</p>

<p>You’re one of the lucky ones. Your experience is not everyone’s. Polaroid used to be one of the best places to work until it went bankrupt. The executives got golden parachutes worth millions. Employees lost all their pensions. A recent news item mentioned that most employees got a grand total of $43 from their pension fund.</p>

<p>The guy in my H’s previous who went into the office on his way to a sales conference out of town heard that morning that he’d been fired. He did not have to go into the office, he could have gone straight to the airport and never known he’d been fired while trying to sell his company’s product. He was also told, among other indignities, that the money he’d spent buying his airfare would not be reimbursed. </p>

<p>My H works in software for a small company; it is a great place to work for, except for the fact that the bosses, themselves workaholics, expect everyone to do the same. It’s incredibly eady in computers to take the work home. It does not mean you are allowed to telecommute. It means you put in 9 hours a day in the office and then more at home.
Also, they get upset if anyone takes more than a week’s vacation at a time, though they’re entitled to 3. Someone who went on vacation in Europe was given a cellphone with instructions to call the office everyday… some vacation.<br>
Friends of mine in banking used to stay up at night in order to do business with banks in Asia. Like Jym’s stories, it’s not a sign of incompetence on anyone’s part.</p>

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<p>Yeah! And don’t even think about giving us that “wolf among sheep” cliche either! That is an illusion (fed by ego). </p>

<p>Now that I’ve thrown the dodge ball for the team, guess what I just finished? Well, I’ll tell you - a planning outline and detailed illustration for a spiffy enterprise address verification and bulk mailing web service, inspired by the conference I attended last week in London. Working on Sunday night - I have disgraced this board, I know. However, I did spend the day at a meditation retreat - that’s work/life balance for you.</p>

<p>Cheers!</p>

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<p>“But to say that that someone who doesn’t take all nights and weekends off is inefficient or engages in poor planning is not only short-sighted, it is unkind.”</p>

<p>Did I say the person should take ALL nights and weekends off? Did I say the PERSON who works 7 days a week is ineffecient and a poor planner? I was talking about the culture of the corporation. Don’t make automatic personal leaps. My post went on to discuss management style and culture. ONE PERSON doesn’t have the power to drive an entire corporate culture for a large international firm. </p>

<p>Working every night and weekend is a problem - unless you signed up for it. </p>

<p>If I or anyone above me had to work 7 days a week, every week, we should calling meetings to understand why and evaluating the distribution of workloads - and maybe firing people who aren’t producing. I know people who work 7 days a week. They don’t delegate. They are control freaks. They lack an important skill. Its not admirable. Workaholics are also not admirable. They are imbalanced. An entire organiztion of these folks is dysfunctional. </p>

<p>Let me be clear, these imbalances don’t always translate directly to the overworked employee and their skill-set and work style. The lack of effective planning and management could be rooted at a superior’s level and possibly at the cultural level. </p>

<p>Everyone is accountable for the success - each doing their part. Effectively, if someone is on overload, someone else isn’t pulling their weight - time to understand why and address it. </p>

<p>If that isn’t the case and the firm is overloading people by design, time to move on. Anyone who stays in a situation designed to overload them is making that decision of their own free will. I can’t judge that. </p>

<p>I AM in IT - and am more than familiar with Sarbox, root cause analysis, middle of the night conf calls, go/no-go on migrations, etc. If an IT dept isn’t staffed with people who can manage it without one person assuming an overload of responsibility, that’s a problem. Whether it is a problem with the staffer, the staff or the corporate culture, it’s a problem. </p>

<p>It’s funny. Think about this: corporations don’t have a life of their own. They are a reflection of the people within. People = the culture. So, while this thread is so full of complaints about corporate work, what you are all really complaining about is people…</p>

<p>Really, what I am reading in JYM’s post isn’t a problem with corp life. It’s really a problem with her husband’s function. He’s working in a high-demand position. If he was self-employed, I doubt being the guy who makes the computers (or managing those people) work in his own company would be any different. If he was in a small, 5 person office, it would be the same. That’s the nature of being in that function. </p>

<p>What are we really complaining about? Hard work? People issues? Workaholism?</p>

<p>I’m not saying my corp is the norm…though, I expect it is pretty typical. I assume my pleasure is probably related to what I do more than who I work for. I don’t make IT work. I sell IT. If my sold networks fail, I get the calls. If I start getting enough problem calls to keep me working 24/7, I suppose I need to stop selling that product and sell something that works :)</p>

<p>Anyway, this discussion has gone far beyond corporate life versus private sector/non-profit/etc. We’ve definitely gotten off topic. </p>

<p>All I was saying is that corporate life isn’t so bad and was detailing my good experience so that students reading this won’t feel like corp life is out of the question.</p>

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<p>Momsdream:
A company can be so great that it’s bought out by another company. That’s what happened to my H’s previous company. It was doingvery well and attracted the attention of a major corporation based in a different state. Some people got laid off at that time. Fair enough. Then the big corporation failed under the weight of the huge debt it had incurred through its aggressive acquisitions. At the time it bought H’s company, the stock was worth $80. Today’s the out-of-state corporation’s stock is worth $1.25.
As I said, you’re lucky.</p>

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<p>Clarification - My dodge ball was thrown at nedad - hi, nedad.</p>

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<p>momsdream-
I am going to try to be appropriate in my response to your statements. Lets just say they are off the mark, and hover with more than just an air of superiority. Perhaps you are one of the ones who causes the upside down corporate culture. Maybe you are on the “right” side of the politics., and are insulated from this stuff. It doesn’t matter.
I never said my h. worked every weekend, but the responsibility he has expects availability, and like marite said, you are available by cell (triband or satellite phone when overseas) wherever you are. Sure you can leave others in charge in your absence, but it isn’t always that simple.</p>

<p>Wouldn’t it be great if someone could come in with their magic wand and change the entire corporate culture of an organization. It sure would be nice. Get real. I have said for a long time that the tail has been wagging the dog in parts of this organization. Sure, it would be great if you could just fire the deadwood without getting hostile work environment accusations, protected minority claims (my favorite was from someone who was by blood a 1/8 member of a protected minority), etc etc etc which immediately surface when some people get the hint that they are about to be facing negative reviews, etc. So the manager should be able to give an appropriate review if someone is not working to expectation-- maybe even consider putting them on a performance plan. Right? Wrong. HR says no, no, they might sue, they might file that EEOC complaint, demand mediators, bring in lawyers, refuse to disclose any reason for unexplained absences other than saying it was medically-related and therefor protected by the new HIPAA privacy act (all this happened). Yes, I know you are going to say that this is the sign of an unhealthy work environment. Well no kidding. Duh. So you try to bring in corporate consultants to do team-building? You do research and provide a few recommendations, but HR , who may be part of the problem, decides they will choose who can come in and select the consultant. And so it goes.</p>

<p>It would be beyond naive to belive that a corporate culture can be changed easily, especially if they do not see any need to change. I know that you know it. So what should you do when you have many years with a company, good benefits and, hopefully, a nice pension if you make it that long. Easy to find a position at the same or better salary in the same city (if your spouse has an established business that cannot simply be abandoned, and your kids are in HS and would not like to move at this point)? Right. Sure, other opportunities can be explored, but it may be a matter of deciding what to sacrifice. </p>

<p>Please, when you come down off your high horse, please consider being a little less insensitive. Funny, this sounds like the “corporate culture” of which I speak. Maybe you are part of the problem. The people “above” are happy as pigs in a poke in his company too.</p>

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<p>Marite-
My company has been acquired. I spent that last couple of weeks detailing my growth strategies and revenue targets in laborious plans to be handed off to my new superiors, whomever they many be. We all joke that we are writing our obituaries. </p>

<p>Thousands of people will probably be laid off - from both the acquirer and us. Thousands have already been laid off. As sad as that is, I don’t see that as a problem with corp work. It’s part of the game. Everyone knows the risks. </p>

<p>Things have dramatically changed over the last several years. Less people to do more. Its amazing what I’ve learned - both from a strategic/high-level corporate direction view and from a rull-up your sleeves and find that $100 billing error view. I would bet that I am doing what 10 or more people used to do. Is that such a horrible thing? Not if you want to grow and learn. </p>

<p>Salespeople normally don’t need to understand capex and opex on what they sell. I remember when I didn’t need to understand profitability…or run NVPs on my deals. It used ot be easy. If we offered it, I sold it. No longer. Its more challenging, which is what makes it interesting.</p>

<p>Honestly, being part of an acquired company prior to merger close is one of the most interesting situations I’ve ever encountered. I look at it as an opportunity. It’s like musical chairs. There’s a talent in anticipating when the music will stop, and making sure you have a seat when it does.</p>

<p>This isn’t easy…but it is fun.</p>

<p>Anyway, I’m not making light of what anyone else has seen as a hardship or what has hurt anyone’s financial position or family life. If it gets as bad as many of you have seen, I’ll do something else. It just hasn’t reached that point - yet. Maybe it never will. Maybe I’m just suited for this. Maybe, as you’ve said, I’m just lucky.</p>

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<p>jym-</p>

<p>Again, what you are describing extends beyond corporations. That was my point. Colleges, hospitals, law firms, school systems, etc…all deal with what you describe above. Even independent contractors are protected. </p>

<p>I am insensitive and intense. I admit it. Not because of my positon (I’m a salesperson, not a CEO!). Last time I complained to my boss, he told me to stop whining (he smiled when he said it, but I got the point - I presented a problem without offering a solution - a no-no around here). Its a tough business and I love it. I am not “above” - I am mid-level (the worst position). I also admit that I don’t own a staff. Everyone is dotted line to me. Thus, I don’t have HR responsibilites. That’s the good thing about sales…we get to focus on sales and business…not the HR related stuff you’ve outlined above. It sounds horrible. Is this a union shop?</p>

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<p>momsdream-
There is no union in management. Some people who feel a sense of loyalty to their company and work hard to do what is best for the company are not necessarily workaholics. </p>

<p>It is a good thing you enjoy the thrill of the hunt. Sounds like, with your corporate takeover, you could be in for a bumpy ride, which apparently you enjoy. And, it is helpful to be a female in these situations. Yes, IT sales is VERY different from IT management. But salespeople are usually sensitive to the needs of their customers. I am guessing that you have that skill. I am suggesting that what you describe as “intense” might be seen by others as “arrogance”. Just a thought.</p>

<p><em>EDIT</em>
Need to clarify-
The people reporting to my h. are not union. The only union folks are in an offshoot of the co. we are not talking union rules and regs here at any level.</p>

<p>Again, be careful when you use words, even in generalities, like “control freaks”, “workaholics”, “lack important skills” or “dysfunctional”. In some environments, even throwing those words around can get you in trouble.</p>

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<p>Barrons, I am sorry that you are being treated so badly by a company that you have served. It is shabby of them and reasonable for you to feel hurt and offended. My advice is don’t burn your bridges behind you. You are a smart person and can handle yourself so take the deep breath, be nice and finish your time with this firm demonstrating the level of class that you expect from a professional like yourself. You won’t regret it.</p>

<p>While it sounds like you are leaving voluntarily, I would caution you about pleasant as well as unpleasant stresses. They can wreck havoc on you physically…I hope everything works out well for you and wish you great success in the next phase of your career.</p>

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<p>This thread has veered off topic…</p>