We’re starting to consider high school options for 8th grader. We’re in a large district in Florida with multiple programs, and we’re trying to determine which high schools she should prioritize
Her current goal (which certainly could change!) is a small liberal arts college outside of FL - major & career path undecided. I suspect she’ll be targeting relatively-selective-but-not-Top-10 schools (maybe something like Haverford at the very highest, more likely Kenyon, etc.).
AP course options are limited (we’re in Florida) and gradually being phased out, so that’s not really an option… she may be able to take a couple of AP classes, but that’s it. Instead, our options are an IB program, a Cambridge/AICE program, or a school affiliated with the local community college that offers dual enrollment in 11th & 12th grades.
It seems IB would be the “best” choice, but I don’t know if it would be a great fit, given what I’ve heard about the workload (3-4 hrs/night?) and the personality of the school. She’s a smart kid (A’s and top 10% on standardized tests) but isn’t really a “gunner” (or whatever word people use for that these days, LOL) - she’s more of a quirky/artsy type. The AICE program is at a performing arts school, which seems like a natural fit, and I see that some colleges do recognize AICE courses, but this school primarily offers AS-level courses with only one A-level course. The dual enrollment school is the highest ranked in our county and its small size is appealing, but community college courses sound less rigorous than the other options.
Any thoughts on AICE vs. DE in liberal arts college admissions? I’m not worried about whether credits transfer - it would be a nice perk, but I know that FL DE/AICE courses won’t replace liberal arts school courses in content or diversity of perspectives. Instead, I’m more concerned with her being viewed as a competitive applicant for admission and/or merit aid (if she opts for a less selective school).
Any thoughts/experiences appreciated. And if I’m overthinking this and any of these schools would be fine, I’d love to hear that, too!
Hmmmm - it’s waaaayyyyy too early to talk about schools like Haverford and other top 10. It’s even too early to talk about college at all.
But if you’re going to be shooting for the stats, then you shouldn’t be afraid of the workload.
Personally, I’d go to the nearby, convenient public. They all send kids to college. The colleges will understand the curriculum and evaluate it as such.
And I would cease any of this talk now - your student hasn’t even started hs.
Thank you!! I had a feeling that might be the case. It’s just challenging when there are so many different options!
There’s no such thing as a “nearby, convenient public” in our county. It’s a long story (related to this county being very, very late to desegregation), but there are no neighborhood schools in our area - kids are randomly assigned to any one of several schools in the county. In order to avoid having to travel long distances across town, almost everyone applies to a special program. I guess we should just quit overthinking and either choose the arts school for its good fit or the DE program for its later 8 am start time. Thanks!!
Also, we definitely haven’t discussed/considered any specific colleges… I was just basing those examples on my own memories of college applications a million years ago! She’s highly unlikely to be applying somewhere crazy like Williams, but I think she will want to go to a somewhat competitive school because, while she’s not very competitive, she likes being surrounded by “nerdy” kids who take school seriously.
If she likes being surrounded by kids who take school seriously-- does that suggest that the IB is the best choice for now given what you know? If it turns out to be too much for her, then isn’t a sophomore transfer to a more low key program an option? Doesn’t seem like the reverse would be true…
Will the courses be taken at the college with other college students, or will they be “college in the high school”?
Will the courses (at least at higher levels for high school students) be ones which transfer to your state universities for subject credit for college frosh and soph level courses (not remedial or developmental courses)?
IB program fit can depend on which subjects are offered with a choice of SL or HL, SL only, or HL only. Ideally, the student’s best and most liked subjects should be offered HL. However, a student who struggles in a subject may not find it optimal if that subject is HL only.
That’s a good point. If she left the IB program before completing her sophomore year, she’d be reassigned to a different school… I’ll need to look into the special program application process/options for non-freshmen. Thanks!
My understanding is that the DE courses are a combination of both - some with other HS students and some with college students. All of the courses would transfer to any FL public university. For a variety of reasons, though (weather, FL politics re: education, availability of a well-funded 529 from grandparents, etc.), it’s hard to imagine her wanting to stay in FL. It could happen, but it seems relatively unlikely. That would certainly be the most appealing option for many students, but it’s less of an incentive for us.
Thanks for the additional info on IB courses - I’ll look into that!!
You might want to read the “applying sideways” blog on the MIT admissions web site. As I understand it, it recommends that students do what is right for them, do it well, and treat people well. This means that when thinking about options for high school, you ignore university admissions, and instead do what is right for the student. Things will work out.
This is what our family has done and it has worked out well for us in terms of university admissions and otherwise. This did include admissions to some highly ranked schools. In terms of “do what is right for the student” we each did very different things (including attending very different high schools). We just each did what was right for us individually.
The other thing that occurs to me reading your post is that high school students in the US are on average and in general under way, way too much stress. Just being a teenager and finding your way in life is stressful enough. Adding in thoughts of whatever you need to do to get into university is just too much, particularly since university admissions in the US is so unpredictable and the top ranked schools are so difficult to get into.
Also, a high school student IMHO should not be spending 3 to 4 hours per night doing homework unless they want to do it. The desire to do this needs to come from inside the student. I did attend universities that require a lot of work and have some experience dealing with this much stress. If you want to do it then it can be fun, but if you don’t want to do it then it can be very unpleasant and mostly likely will not lead to good results. I would be very cautious about this.
There are however a huge number of very good liberal arts colleges and very good universities in the US. If a student does what is right for them, does it well, and gets good grades, and applies to an appropriate range of schools, and if they are a good student, they will get accepted to some colleges and/or universities that are a good fit for them.
By the way both one daughter and I attended high schools that did not offer an AP classes at all. We both nonetheless did fine wrt university admissions.
Since many kids sleep through school with these 7a start times (hs should start last, not first, but that’s another issue) - yes 8a is a huge boon. I’d go there.
Start School Later is a big big big thing advocacy thing around the country - the group is trying to get later start times, for good reason. There more morning traffic accidents and less learning with the early start times.
Thanks for this feedback! I was one of those kids who gladly did 4 hours of homework per night in high school. I went to a gifted magnet school, took lots of APs, was accepted to Williams but decided to go elsewhere due to $$$, etc. My daughter is a smart kid, but she’s not me… thankfully!!! She likes to be around other smart/curious kids, but the happy, well-adjusted, artsy smart/curious kids, not the super-competitive ones. (We actually homeschooled for 6th & 7th grade because she was so bored/unhappy in a public school that didn’t offer advanced classes. She’s now attending a small private school this year, to help with the transition to high school.)
I just read the MIT blog post and it is super-helpful! Thank you again!
Yep. Florida tried to change school start times so the HS students would start at 9 or later, but school districts pushed back. Our public high schools start at 7 (with the exception of the DE program, because it’s a charter school).
Does the IB high school require doing the full IB diploma or can your student take the IB courses that interest them? My S did the IB diploma in addition to many AP courses and while it was a lot of work, it definitely wasn’t 3-4 hours of work/night. He was able to participate in other school activities and multiple sports. Part of it will depend on how efficient they are with managing the workload. My D was not interested in in the full IB Diploma and she only took HL English and French (in addition to a number of AP courses). She was not quite as efficient with her work, but she was still able to be heavily involved in theater throughout high school. I think the IB courses were a much better academic fit for my kids than DE classes would have been. I don’t think you need to be a “gunner” but for intellectually curious kids, I think IB courses can be great for many.
The important aspect is if they will transfer as relatively advanced (for high school / community college) courses or remedial / developmental (from a college viewpoint) courses.
For example, if students commonly take calculus and multivariable calculus, that implies a DE program more focused on advanced students than if students typically stop at intermediate algebra or college algebra.
Transferability to other colleges may have to wait until matriculation, when the college evaluates the transfer courses.
One daughter was interested in a small school such as Williams or Bowdoin. I ran the NPC for both. It was not encouraging. Fortunately there are lots of other very good options.
She would have to enroll in the full diploma program in order to be considered for a seat at that school. It’s the most desired school in our area, so the chances of getting assigned to that school without being admitted through the IB program are slim to none.
Ah, I see your point! I’m not finding much info on their website, but that’s definitely something I’ll look into. Their information does suggest that most of their 9th graders are taking geometry, which would imply that they’re taking precalc/calc in 11th & 12th grades. I’ll do some more research, though. Thanks!!